JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Tim Nelson]

Yea I don't think we'd want to even consider comparing ourselves to any regional airline contracts. The paper they use to write the contract on is probably worth more than any improvements.
Not even going to try to search for it Tim.

I think what is comparable would be the signing bonus and the company actions being charted. Giving a regional $40,000 year mx job a $3,000 signing bonus is comparable to the 7% (about) that they just agreed to the uswa with a $60,000+ job.

 

[WeAAsles]

I think what is comparable would be the signing bonus and the company actions being charted. Giving a regional $40,000 year mx job a $3,000 signing bonus is comparable to the 7% (about) that they just agreed to the uswa with a $60,000+ job.

Tim you know for sure that those Cannucks are making over 60k? Plus I've never been a fan of the signing bonus personally. Seen a few lousy contracts in my career pass because of that quick buck that isn't worth chit when you cost it out over the life of that contract.

I'm sure that even if our guys agree to a bonus it's going to be attached to a great TA but it still winds up tainting that real vote.

And again Tim you still seem too focused on the money? Take a chill pill on that one Bro. Our guys know all too well that the membership wants the scratch. You don't have to worry about that one.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Deleted

 

[Kev3188]

Yea I don't think we'd want to even consider comparing ourselves to any regional airline contracts. The paper they use to write the contract on is probably worth more than any improvements.

Not even going to try to search for it Tim.

I think it's important for everyone to know what each carrier is getting, regional or not.

Knowledge is power.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim you know for sure that those Cannucks are making over 60k? Plus I've never been a fan of the signing bonus personally. Seen a few lousy contracts in my career pass because of that quick buck that isn't worth chit when you cost it out over the life of that contract.
I'm sure that even if our guys agree to a bonus it's going to be attached to a great TA but it still winds up tainting that real vote.
And again Tim you still seem too focused on the money? Take a chill pill on that one Bro. Our guys know all too well that the membership wants the scratch. You don't have to worry about that one.

Why wouldnt I been focused on a 30% pay raise and profit sharing and a big bonus? Im hoping everyone is and I expect it from our negotiators. What is disappointing is that people seem to accept the false dichotomy that one cant have the money along with better scope. So, to be clear, when I or anyone else stats that the 30% pay raise is significant....and it is, that doesnt mean i am in favor of tossing out catering or not lowering the scope bar. Imo, the focus should be on the active membership, including recognition for retirees and any laidoff, and NOT on the unborn. Take care of who we have now. If it comes to this then that means grandfathering those in the small stations prior to new stations.

 

[Jester]

And if it was in the contract we wouldn't read about Union reps like P. Rez supposedly screwing a guy (cough) because here's your contract man. Read it and follow it and if you don't it's on you now.

 
And how about reading what I actually posted?
 

I have had seen people get terminated because sick calls were placed onto the wrong person with a like name(s), parent died, severe floods, or "unauthorized" early outs from other stations! 

 
These aren't situations of people calling out sick or being late too many times, but people who were cited for other employees' sick calls! Not to mention a death of a parent, severe weather conditions causing city-wide gridlock, and approvals from other stations to early-out but now being an issue in PHX several months later!  But the PHX shop stewards thought those wrongly accused were being given a "good deal" (actual words) in "just" having a Level 3 when the issue of termination should have NEVER risen to that level in the first place!
 
I have heard other stations have a much stronger union presence than the clowns running this place, and I am looking to get out from underneath this PHX circus tent where Management and union leadership are just a little too chummy.

 

[WeAAsles]

Why wouldnt I been focused on a 30% pay raise and profit sharing and a big bonus? Im hoping everyone is and I expect it from our negotiators. What is disappointing is that people seem to accept the false dichotomy that one cant have the money along with better scope. So, to be clear, when I or anyone else stats that the 30% pay raise is significant....and it is, that doesnt mean i am in favor of tossing out catering or not lowering the scope bar. Imo, the focus should be on the active membership, including recognition for retirees and any laidoff, and NOT on the unborn. Take care of who we have now. If it comes to this then that means grandfathering those in the small stations prior to new stations.

Ok so let's discuss this then. Obviously you're not a Socialist and didn't vote for Sanders. I also believe the unborn shouldn't get a lot of the focus but what does that mean?

The industry and you guys have a 12 year pay progression. We have a 9 year progression. Should it stay with 12 or maybe go even longer if that's what it takes to prop us up? How about PTers paying double for the medical and getting half the the contribution to the IAMPF? Should that also continue if that's what it costs for you and I with over 20 years to get more?

Tim with this type of thought process we can also run with going against the small stations too you know. For arguments sake, why should a guy in a small cheap city make the same wages that you and I are going to get? If those guys make less, then the company can continue to fly there and generate profits and you and I don't have to subsidize their choice to stay in those small stations that always seem to have a microscope on them? I "chose" to move to have better job security. Why shouldn't they? What if it meant you and I had to make less so they don't have to make tough choices? 

On the topic I was just crushed by a small business owner Conservative. I went to get my glasses fixed and we started a conversation. Every counterpoint I tried to make to this guy he was able to beat back. It was humbling to say the least. Also made me feel that I'm going to continue doing business with him.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
And how about reading what I actually posted?
 
 
These aren't situations of people calling out sick or being late too many times, but people who were cited for other employees' sick calls! Not to mention a death of a parent, severe weather conditions causing city-wide gridlock, and approvals from other stations to early-out but now being an issue in PHX several months later!  But the PHX shop stewards thought those wrongly accused were being given a "good deal" (actual words) in "just" having a Level 3 when the issue of termination should have NEVER risen to that level in the first place!
 
I have heard other stations have a much stronger union presence than the clowns running this place, and I am looking to get out from underneath this PHX circus tent where Management and union leadership are just a little too chummy.

I don't work in PHX and I'm not going to get into the back and forth between you and P Rez. I'm speaking about the experiences that I've had with AA in the Stations that I've worked in.

Besides personally anyone who wants to live in a place where the temerature hit's over 115 degrees all summer is out of their minds in the first place. Maybe you guys have problems there because of that insane heat?

 

[P. REZ]

And how about reading what I actually posted?
 

 
These aren't situations of people calling out sick or being late too many times, but people who were cited for other employees' sick calls! Not to mention a death of a parent, severe weather conditions causing city-wide gridlock, and approvals from other stations to early-out but now being an issue in PHX several months later!  But the PHX shop stewards thought those wrongly accused were being given a "good deal" (actual words) in "just" having a Level 3 when the issue of termination should have NEVER risen to that level in the first place!
 
I have heard other stations have a much stronger union presence than the clowns running this place, and I am looking to get out from underneath this PHX circus tent where Management and union leadership are just a little too chummy.

I am not going to get in a back and forth discussion, I will reiterate, you have got bad information. The scenarios you are describing are unknown to me.

 

[Jester]

I am not going to get in a back and forth discussion, I will reiterate, you have got bad information. The scenarios you are describing are unknown to me.

You are absolutely right... I just PM you C.L. phone number instead so you can speak with him directly.

 

[robbedagain]

WeAA  if the FMLA is for employee use it supposenly comes out of the sick bank   But if its for the employee's family member then its suppose to be unpaid   however and I can attest to this bec of my son's special needs I have it for my son and Ive been both unpaid and paid for it    This is the grey area that the company can choose to pay you but then if enough of it comes out guess what  you will owe the company back whether its paying them back via payroll deductions or something..   there should be a clear cut thing put into the contract    WeAA  its like some of the folks have told me    the company has you earning sick time only to punish you for using it when you are truly sick    I'm not an advocate for anyone to use it just to abuse it but I do know crap like that happens everywhere    currently it all sucks when you have a mgmt. team like ours who are too dam strict on the sick leave and they force you to get FMLA    Why bother getting sick if theyre gonna screw you over   bec if you get sick  then youre sick  if you know what I mean bro

 

[Tim Nelson]

Ok so let's discuss this then. Obviously you're not a Socialist and didn't vote for Sanders. I also believe the unborn shouldn't get a lot of the focus but what does that mean?
The industry and you guys have a 12 year pay progression. We have a 9 year progression. Should it stay with 12 or maybe go even longer if that's what it takes to prop us up? How about PTers paying double for the medical and getting half the the contribution to the IAMPF? Should that also continue if that's what it costs for you and I with over 20 years to get more?
Tim with this type of thought process we can also run with going against the small stations too you know. For arguments sake, why should a guy in a small cheap city make the same wages that you and I are going to get? If those guys make less, then the company can continue to fly there and generate profits and you and I don't have to subsidize their choice to stay in those small stations that always seem to have a microscope on them? I "chose" to move to have better job security. Why shouldn't they? What if it meant you and I had to make less so they don't have to make tough choices? 
On the topic I was just crushed by a small business owner Conservative. I went to get my glasses fixed and we started a conversation. Every counterpoint I tried to make to this guy he was able to beat back. It was humbling to say the least. Also made me feel that I'm going to continue doing business with him.

I was speaking generally. Sorta tuff to figure out what it means with a total ta but i stand by what I said, ie, ograc should be taken care of prior to a new hire. Thats my perspective. Yours may be different. As far as small stations, there is less leverage, just saying they shouldnt be displaced and ought to be grandfathered if the current station falls under a new scope bar.

 

[Tim Nelson]

as far as attendance policy, at minimum, there should b a clause where the policy cant be any worse than what is currently practiced. Thats at least better than not having any language in the contract.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAA  if the FMLA is for employee use it supposenly comes out of the sick bank   But if its for the employee's family member then its suppose to be unpaid   however and I can attest to this bec of my son's special needs I have it for my son and Ive been both unpaid and paid for it    This is the grey area that the company can choose to pay you but then if enough of it comes out guess what  you will owe the company back whether its paying them back via payroll deductions or something..   there should be a clear cut thing put into the contract    WeAA  its like some of the folks have told me    the company has you earning sick time only to punish you for using it when you are truly sick    I'm not an advocate for anyone to use it just to abuse it but I do know crap like that happens everywhere    currently it all sucks when you have a mgmt. team like ours who are too dam strict on the sick leave and they force you to get FMLA    Why bother getting sick if theyre gonna screw you over   bec if you get sick  then youre sick  if you know what I mean bro

Well get this one Robbed. In our current contract you can accumulate up to 180 days of sick bank accrual. Once you reach the max if you don't start using them you lose the 5 days per year we get right now. When you retire they'll pay you out at $25.00 per day up to 120 days. So yep they give you a whopping $3000.00 before taxes.

So let's be realistic here. what do you think most people do? They start banging in before they're going to retire. $24.00 times 8 times 180 days = $34,560 (Not counting what's going into your 401k match and staying on AA medical 6 months longer)

The Company knows that it's going on but because of HIPA Laws they can't do much about it. And 180 days straight is still only one occurrence.

It's stupid and they're stupid to think by far most people are going to take advantage of it. Besides they give us sick days and then don't think at the end of our carreers we don't want to be paid for them?

The reason why they should have a bridge to retirement utilizing our sick bank for subsidized medical expenses. (Maybe) they would save more money doing things that way the dolts.

Employee A burning through his sick bank $24.00 per hour
Employee B on OT to cover the burning $36.00 per hour.

Not too hard to figure out that it sounds a little expensive there huh?

 

[WeAAsles]

I was speaking generally. Sorta tuff to figure out what it means with a total ta but i stand by what I said, ie, ograc should be taken care of prior to a new hire. Thats my perspective. Yours may be different. As far as small stations, there is less leverage, just saying they shouldnt be displaced and ought to be grandfathered if the current station falls under a new scope bar.

And I was speaking figuratively. And who said that ograc in his small station shouldn't be taken care of? Not me and certainly not ahead of a newbie. 

But if it ever came down to a worst case scenario are you prepared to have to make a sacrifice for him and his maybe 15 other coworkers to stay in their city if that's' their choice?

What is, would, or could that cost be? And should thousands of others have to pay it if that were the case?