JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[swamt]

Look weez, you think I'm being idealistic with the medical, and I think you're being obtuse with the medical. We aren't going to agree. The medical for LUS IS ABSOLUTLEY A CONCESSION if it is lost for the LAA insurance. I'm sorry you don't see that as one. But since you gots yours, it's all ok. I thought that once we were a combined workforce we would all get along, now I'm not so sure. With you folks at LAA willing and certainly able to "sell out" for the $$$$$. All I read is that anything that is better than what you folks at LAA have now will get voted in because you have the numbers. I know that is a fact. LAA outnumbers us for sure. And will absolutely carry the vote. But why screw over you newly adopted family to do so? You guys would trip over a dollar to grab a nickel. You are starting to fall into the all I want is the $$$$$ category now weez. It looks like to me that the $$$$ is more important to you than anything else. And I would wager that it looks like to you that the insurance it all I care about. I want a deal that is going to excellent for all. And with every snide response, I lose more and more respect for you. The difference to me is I want ALL of us to have the best of everything, you want whats best for the weez and the LAA folks. You make that plainly clear. My apologies to anybody on the LAA side that feels differently than weez. I know that there are alot of you out there that think we should fight for the best of everything and not cave for the $$$$$. Just like there are alot on the LUS side that think the same as weez.

Well said sir. I agree 100%. Anything less than what you have now is a concession period. He has already said if you have more $$$$ when it is all said and done then it's not a concession. he is wrong. And yes, if they yank the current medical from the LUS and get them on the LAA's medical, it will in fact be a concession. It won't be a concession for him or his LAA'ers so he does not care or count that as a concession. Part of the IGM crowd as well as the all eyes on the $$$$ only.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well said sir. I agree 100%. Anything less than what you have now is a concession period. He has already said if you have more $$$$ when it is all said and done then it's not a concession. he is wrong. And yes, if they yank the current medical from the LUS and get them on the LAA's medical, it will in fact be a concession. It won't be a concession for him or his LAA'ers so he does not care or count that as a concession. Part of the IGM crowd as well as the all eyes on the $$$$ only.

These conversations are only argued IMO by completely insane people. I'm just not sure if some are capable of this getting through any more or something. But what the heck I'll keep trying.

((((AND NO I AM """"NOT"""" ADVOCATING FOR ANYONE TO PAY A HIGHER MEDICAL COST))))

But here. Let's say the Company requests for an employee to pay an extra $300.00 ($3600.00 per year) per month more for Medical.

But in return the offer was an $8.00 per hour, $1280.00 ($15,360 per year) per month raise.

FINANCIALLY you do the MATH? You see a concession because some money was taken out of the front pocket but a whole hell of a lot more was put into your wallet?

If this is how you view things swamt it's absolutely no wonder you still have no contract where you work after over 5 years now.

 

[MetalMover]

These conversations are only argued IMO by completely insane people. I'm just not sure if some are capable of this getting through any more or something. But what the heck I'll keep trying.

((((AND NO I AM """"NOT"""" ADVOCATING FOR ANYONE TO PAY A HIGHER MEDICAL COST))))

But here. Let's say the Company requests for an employee to pay an extra $300.00 ($3600.00 per year) per month more for Medical.

But in return the offer was an $8.00 per hour, $1280.00 ($15,360 per year) per month raise.

FINANCIALLY you do the MATH? You see a concession because some money was taken out of the front pocket but a whole hell of a lot more was put into your wallet?

If this is how you view things swamt it's absolutely no wonder you still have no contract where you work after over 5 years now.

Some people like fuzzy math.....If we got a 23% raise and then medical premiums go up 23%, they go around screaming that the raise was wiped out. I guess they missed the classes on percentages.
Just think of the outcry had we NOT received a raise and the medical cost went up....
There's no pleasing everyone.

 

[WeAAsles]

How am I "looking down from the high pearch"? The benefits I get from theLUS stand alone CBA were negotiated in our section 6 talks. Granted, it was sped up by this merger, but honestly the only thing we got out of the merger through the CBA was the pay. The enhancements we received through that process were supporting the current language we had. So our CBA language was there long before this merger. I do not know when you guys lost all that you did, be it in 2003, or through the BK process, and I honestly feel for you guys. But like you always point out to me, we are making $30+ an hour now, thanks to this merger. Do you think you would be there without it? I know I don't. So we both "gots ours" with regard to the pay. Are you subsidizing my family insurance now? If you are, how so? How am I being a hypocrite about anything with these issues? I want you guys level with us with what we have now, so we all gain going forward. It is not the IAM's fault, the Associations fault, or my fault for that matter that you guys are not on par with us. That is strictly management. They could have done for you what they did for the pilots and F/A's but they chose not to. Why?

I don't know why but every time I read comments like these it's sounds like we're more in a Sports contest than trying to get a CBA for ALL employees of this Company? And no Irish I think you're a good guy and you're not doing it on purpose but it's always just the way it feels to me.

And we all (All Americans) subsidize each other when it comes to medical expenses. The more expense the Company pays out to Medical providers, the more they will pass some of those costs onto us the next year. It's how it works.

On your last comment I'm not sure what to say? Just give us what we want without signing a deal? Is that what you're proposing? Didn't they already do that with the raises last October? The ones everyone seems to have forgotten about.

 

[WeAAsles]

Some people like fuzzy math.....If we got a 23% raise and then medical premiums go up 23%, they go around screaming that the raise was wiped out. I guess they missed the classes on percentages.
Just think of the outcry had we NOT received a raise and the medical cost went up....
There's no pleasing everyone.

YES YES YES!!!!!! Thank you Metal. I read and hear that comment all the time. It's freakin nuts.

 

[NYer]

Because of TWA/Kasher you were forced out of LGA, right? Even with 25% they trounced your 1995 seniority and at the time you weren’t even top of scale?

Maybe NYer knows but what are the implications for Kasher at LUS points? When MCI gets reopened will it be a 100% or 25% or 4/10/01 city? What about points that LAA didn’t have staffed like CLT or BDL that are now IAM LUS staffed? What about places that LUS is staffed that TWA didn’t fly to at the time of the acquisition? Does everything default to 4/10/01 (as it should systemwide)?

Josh

They would need to go back and get a snapshot of those stations in order to designate them either 100%, 25% or 4/10/01.

"... it is this Arbitrator’s finding that TWA’s contribution will be considered more than de minimis only where the contribution of TWA in terms of ASMs is greater than ten percent (10%) of the total ASMs at any city or station as of April 9, 2001. At such city/stations TWA IAM- represented employees will be provided with a seniority date that represents twenty-five percent (25%) of their acquired TWA seniority."

"At cities/stations where TWA’s ASMs contribution is less than ten percent (10%) based upon the above-referenced calculation and where there are resident American TWU-represented employees in the same craft(s) or class(es) as the TWA-IAM represented employees, TWA’s contribution will be deemed de minimis, and such TWA IAM-represented employees will acquire an April 10, 2001 seniority date."

 

[wings396]

Just took another look at the open enrollment for next year. LUS deductible for my current plan is $450, and the LAA Core is $4000. Only 10x more, what a bargain. So that's going to be a concession of $3550 per year just for starters...

 

[WeAAsles]

Just took another look at the open enrollment for next year. LUS deductible for my current plan is $450, and the LAA Core is $4000. Only 10x more, what a bargain. So that's going to be a concession of $3550 per year just for starters...

#1 Are those two plans the plans that would be compared with each other?

#2 Did you read somewhere that you will be coming up to the LAA cost structure currently in place?

I'm still not sure if that Boogeyman is hiding under your bed or in your closet? Maybe yes maybe not?

 

[AANOTOK]

.

Just took another look at the open enrollment for next year. LUS deductible for my current plan is $450, and the LAA Core is $4000. Only 10x more, what a bargain. So that's going to be a concession of $3550 per year just for starters...

My AA deductible for the second best plan (Standard) is $850...$2850 max (including deductible) out of pocket.
I will be paying $124 a pay period for the coverage. Wings, our Value plan (the best) has a deductible of $400.

 

[AANOTOK]

I think you guys on the LUS side should be and for the most part are more concerned about it being a concession than the actual cost. Whatever plan we eventually vote on will not be too shabby compared to millions of workers around the country. But I would agree with W, at what point monetarily or otherwise do you get comfortable with paying more in healthcare cost. More hourly wages, more vacation, more flexibility, more holiday pay???
I'm personally more concerned about the outsourcing and part time ratio and I think that should be at the top of the list.

 

[wings396]

#1 Are those two plans the plans that would be compared with each other?

#2 Did you read somewhere that you will be coming up to the LAA cost structure currently in place?

I'm still not sure if that Boogeyman is hiding under your bed or in your closet? Maybe yes maybe not?

Not sure what your off the wall comments are based on, but you should be able to compare the plans on myaa.com just like everyone else. You di have the Core plan, correct?

 

[wings396]

.

My AA deductible for the second best plan (Standard) is $850...$2850 max (including deductible) out of pocket.
I will be paying $124 a pay period for the coverage. Wings, our Value plan (the best) has a deductible of $400.

Are you posting the costs for just yourself, or the family plan? Before jumping to conclusions here, we at least have to be comparing apples to apples. The more that I read here, the more convinced that I become that most of the LAA guys have been beaten into submission with the crap that's been fed to them over the years. I've heard from the crew ranks down just how crappy your medical plans are. To the extent where fleet guys who are married to FAs, have moved them to our plan.

 

[WeAAsles]

Not sure what your off the wall comments are based on, but you should be able to compare the plans on myaa.com just like everyone else. You di have the Core plan, correct?

No. I also use the Standard plan.

 

[WeAAsles]

Are you posting the costs for just yourself, or the family plan? Before jumping to conclusions here, we at least have to be comparing apples to apples. The more that I read here, the more convinced that I become that most of the LAA guys have been beaten into submission with the crap that's been fed to them over the years. I've heard from the crew ranks down just how crappy your medical plans are. To the extent where fleet guys who are married to FAs, have moved them to our plan.

Boy LUS people really like to "try" to insult LAA people don't they.

You can let go of your inferiority complex now if you want? You are FINALLY part of the BIG LEAGUES.

 

[Albert]

Boy LUS people really like to "try" to insult LAA people don't they.

You can let go of your inferiority complex now if you want? You are FINALLY part of the BIG LEAGUES.

I'm disgusted, can't you ever be serious I'm calling the local