Curious if anybody on the board has done the JFJ thing? I heard through the grapevine that Mesa is treating our furloughed pilots pretty poorly. (Big surprize!!!) Just curious if it''s worth it, or is it better to continue the life of a non-scheding freight dog!
Jets for Jobs??
- Thread starter smfav8r
- Start date
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On 4/5/2003 10:05:56 AM iflyjetz wrote:
One of my furloughed U pilot friends said that they went through ~400 pilots to fill 70 J4J slots. Kinda indicates how bad it is.
He didn''t mention anything about working conditions; he wasn''t interested in the program.
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400 to fill 70 slots?? are they screening for attitudes?On 4/5/2003 10:05:56 AM iflyjetz wrote:
One of my furloughed U pilot friends said that they went through ~400 pilots to fill 70 J4J slots. Kinda indicates how bad it is.
He didn''t mention anything about working conditions; he wasn''t interested in the program.
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D3o2r8kdrvr
Member
- Dec 13, 2002
- 50
- 0
anybody who would J4J with Mesa has no self repect, in many ways they are the reason whi this industry is on its back bleeding to death. I still humor in their frustrations with Freedom. Scabs complaining about their herpes, how sad.
mentorforhealth
Member
- Aug 20, 2002
- 18
- 0
The J4J program pays about as much as working for Home Depot. You are back on reserve living closer to your airport than at mainline due to the reserve call out policy and they even threaten to take Captains and put them in the F/O seat at the food stamp pay rate. Schedulers are young people that think they control your life. I passed on the position but there are people who will do anything just to fly airplanes
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #7
I thought they had to pay us Captain pay regardless of seat??? I know Mesa is about as far down the food chain as you can possibly get, but I didn''t know they could give us F/O pay....I don''t know what it is, but I can''t imagine it''s much more than $18/hr or so....If that''s the case, it seems the JFJ program, as I understood it, is a little misleading!!!! (to say the least)
I guess I need to face the reality that I''m just a non-schedder who got 3 years off for good behavior!!!
I guess I need to face the reality that I''m just a non-schedder who got 3 years off for good behavior!!!
U 737 PILOT
Member
- Feb 5, 2003
- 69
- 0
" 400 to fill 70 slots?? are they screening for attitudes? " Delldude, Right seat at a commuter for dirt wages, pay for your own hotel in training, sign a $10,000 training contract, find your own way to PHX, etc. Did this 15 years ago. No thanks ! Most of us are in our 40''s and refuse to go through this again.
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I do not understand what makes one think that they would be entitled to Captain pay to fly right seat while their "brother" f.o. at MESA has to work for the negotiated wages. I know that is what the JFJ agreement specifies but COME ON: JFJ creates two distinct classes of pilots, one compensated more than the other to do the same job. It is a way for pilots otherwise out of a flying job to retain an flying job at the expense of a "brother" pilot. I thought that is what unions were in place to prevent. It is all a big mess to say the least.
On 4/5/2003 5:34:43 PM smfav8r wrote:
I thought they had to pay us Captain pay regardless of seat??? I know Mesa is about as far down the food chain as you can possibly get, but I didn''t know they could give us F/O pay....I don''t know what it is, but I can''t imagine it''s much more than $18/hr or so....If that''s the case, it seems the JFJ program, as I understood it, is a little misleading!!!! (to say the least)
I guess I need to face the reality that I''m just a non-schedder who got 3 years off for good behavior!!!
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I do not understand what makes one think that they would be entitled to Captain pay to fly right seat while their "brother" f.o. at MESA has to work for the negotiated wages. I know that is what the JFJ agreement specifies but COME ON: JFJ creates two distinct classes of pilots, one compensated more than the other to do the same job. It is a way for pilots otherwise out of a flying job to retain an flying job at the expense of a "brother" pilot. I thought that is what unions were in place to prevent. It is all a big mess to say the least.
On 4/5/2003 5:34:43 PM smfav8r wrote:
I thought they had to pay us Captain pay regardless of seat??? I know Mesa is about as far down the food chain as you can possibly get, but I didn''t know they could give us F/O pay....I don''t know what it is, but I can''t imagine it''s much more than $18/hr or so....If that''s the case, it seems the JFJ program, as I understood it, is a little misleading!!!! (to say the least)
I guess I need to face the reality that I''m just a non-schedder who got 3 years off for good behavior!!!
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On 4/5/2003 10:07:04 AM delldude wrote:
400 to fill 70 slots?? are they screening for attitudes?
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On 4/5/2003 10:07:04 AM delldude wrote:
400 to fill 70 slots?? are they screening for attitudes?
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I can see that I phrased that response poorly. ~330 pilots turned down the offer. The J4J program guarantees furloughed pilots that they will be hired.
I would imagine that once they get down to the guys that were hired in 99 & 2000, there will be a higher acceptance rate.
R
retread
Guest
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On 4/7/2003 7:53:26 AM snpower wrote:
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Because US parked a third of our aircraft and is being replaced by Replacement Jets. They should all be flown by all of our furlughed guys. Any of you who do not see whats going on in this industry must not be to bright. Fact is I think you do.However, the thought of getting our routes and our aircraft just makes you salivate . My job is being replaced by all of the WO and Subs, so if you do not like the J4J program, which by the way sucks and you can only steal half of our jobs, TOO BAD. There is no love lost here either.On 4/7/2003 7:53:26 AM snpower wrote:
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I do not understand what makes one think that they would be entitled to Captain pay to fly right seat while their "brother" f.o. at MESA has to work for the negotiated wages. I know that is what the JFJ agreement specifies but COME ON: JFJ creates two distinct classes of pilots, one compensated more than the other to do the same job. It is a way for pilots otherwise out of a flying job to retain an flying job at the expense of a "brother" pilot. I thought that is what unions were in place to prevent. It is all a big mess to say the least.
On 4/5/2003 5:34:43 PM smfav8r wrote:
I thought they had to pay us Captain pay regardless of seat??? I know Mesa is about as far down the food chain as you can possibly get, but I didn''t know they could give us F/O pay....I don''t know what it is, but I can''t imagine it''s much more than $18/hr or so....If that''s the case, it seems the JFJ program, as I understood it, is a little misleading!!!! (to say the least)
I guess I need to face the reality that I''m just a non-schedder who got 3 years off for good behavior!!!
----------------
I do not understand what makes one think that they would be entitled to Captain pay to fly right seat while their "brother" f.o. at MESA has to work for the negotiated wages. I know that is what the JFJ agreement specifies but COME ON: JFJ creates two distinct classes of pilots, one compensated more than the other to do the same job. It is a way for pilots otherwise out of a flying job to retain an flying job at the expense of a "brother" pilot. I thought that is what unions were in place to prevent. It is all a big mess to say the least.
On 4/5/2003 5:34:43 PM smfav8r wrote:
I thought they had to pay us Captain pay regardless of seat??? I know Mesa is about as far down the food chain as you can possibly get, but I didn''t know they could give us F/O pay....I don''t know what it is, but I can''t imagine it''s much more than $18/hr or so....If that''s the case, it seems the JFJ program, as I understood it, is a little misleading!!!! (to say the least)
I guess I need to face the reality that I''m just a non-schedder who got 3 years off for good behavior!!!
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DHC8Driver
Member
- Aug 21, 2002
- 40
- 0
retread wrote:
However, the thought of getting our routes and our aircraft just makes you salivate . My job is being replaced by all of the WO and Subs, so if you do not like the J4J program, which by the way sucks and you can only steal half of our jobs, TOO BAD. There is no love lost here either.
The WO carriers are not taking anything from you. PDT has lost 20 percent of our fleet and 25 percent of our pliot group. There is no talks of "replacement" jets coming here.
Contract carriers are now flying into our bases and we have entirely closed Florida and our bases there. We have not stolen anything and have reaped ZERO benefit from Mainline downsizing, so get a clue before you post such dribble.
However, the thought of getting our routes and our aircraft just makes you salivate . My job is being replaced by all of the WO and Subs, so if you do not like the J4J program, which by the way sucks and you can only steal half of our jobs, TOO BAD. There is no love lost here either.
The WO carriers are not taking anything from you. PDT has lost 20 percent of our fleet and 25 percent of our pliot group. There is no talks of "replacement" jets coming here.
Contract carriers are now flying into our bases and we have entirely closed Florida and our bases there. We have not stolen anything and have reaped ZERO benefit from Mainline downsizing, so get a clue before you post such dribble.
BoredToDeath
Advanced
- Oct 19, 2002
- 119
- 0
retread,
The quicker you realize that Mainline is a also a WO, the better off you'll be. PDT, PSA, and ALG are just as much a part of the US Airways Group as you are, yet your MEC as made it even more possible for the continued outsourcing of the Express Brand as well as your precious Mainline routes.
If you were to educate yourself on the matter then stand together with your fellow Group pilots, your time would be better spent.
The quicker you realize that Mainline is a also a WO, the better off you'll be. PDT, PSA, and ALG are just as much a part of the US Airways Group as you are, yet your MEC as made it even more possible for the continued outsourcing of the Express Brand as well as your precious Mainline routes.
If you were to educate yourself on the matter then stand together with your fellow Group pilots, your time would be better spent.
Retard, (Sorry Retread)
Thats the sorry attitude a bunch of you mainline guys have (not all). Remember we took pay cuts and furloughed our guys at the WO''s. Pay Cuts!!! When we were the only part of this company still making money!!!! And to sit back and watch the contract carriers get Jets and take our flying. So on that point sorry not one ounce of sympathy. Mainline has given us not one thing from all of our Blood and Sweat. Piedmont went from the number one regional to nothing but a bunch of 10 year old props!!! Do I feel sorry for you guys???? Yes, I hope that WO''s get jets, and we can I hire you guys that are on the street. But we don''t want your attitude in our cockpit feeling like we owe you something. Mainline ran the cash register, while management sat back and allowed it for years. Now times are changing, and the Regional Jet will replace a bunch of Mainlines flying. Come on!!! 70% of US Airways flying can be done by the RJ. Lets just hope that flying can stay within Group, and that we can get along and get through all this!
Thats the sorry attitude a bunch of you mainline guys have (not all). Remember we took pay cuts and furloughed our guys at the WO''s. Pay Cuts!!! When we were the only part of this company still making money!!!! And to sit back and watch the contract carriers get Jets and take our flying. So on that point sorry not one ounce of sympathy. Mainline has given us not one thing from all of our Blood and Sweat. Piedmont went from the number one regional to nothing but a bunch of 10 year old props!!! Do I feel sorry for you guys???? Yes, I hope that WO''s get jets, and we can I hire you guys that are on the street. But we don''t want your attitude in our cockpit feeling like we owe you something. Mainline ran the cash register, while management sat back and allowed it for years. Now times are changing, and the Regional Jet will replace a bunch of Mainlines flying. Come on!!! 70% of US Airways flying can be done by the RJ. Lets just hope that flying can stay within Group, and that we can get along and get through all this!
WSurf,
Is there anyone that has the exact accounting that the W/O carriers that proves PDT, ALG, and PSA had actually been a profitable operation? I have yet to see it. Say what you want about Dave and upper management, but I highly doubt they would have cut you guys 20% just for kicks if the carriers indeed remained profitable. Last I heard, the accounting of the W/O carriers is very convoluted and difficult to understand. I am not trying to flame anyone, I just want to see the numbers.
Is there anyone that has the exact accounting that the W/O carriers that proves PDT, ALG, and PSA had actually been a profitable operation? I have yet to see it. Say what you want about Dave and upper management, but I highly doubt they would have cut you guys 20% just for kicks if the carriers indeed remained profitable. Last I heard, the accounting of the W/O carriers is very convoluted and difficult to understand. I am not trying to flame anyone, I just want to see the numbers.
