Kasher Vrs. Contract?

[MCI transplant]

<_< Bob----I feel that our presant Contract, which was signed after the last Kasher ruling takes presadance! Art.10e is stright forward in it's meaning! If transferred, (for whatever reason), your ocupational seniority shall not be mest with!!! Kasher aworded me 100%, because at the time of the buy-out I was stationed here at MCI! I believe this was merly a means to establish seniority for the purpose of integrating the work forces, nothing more! Well guess what? We've been intagrated! Our seniority has been etablished! And now the contract, not Kasher, is the governing force in our dayly lifes here at aa!!! My opinion, nothing more!!!

 

[TWU informer]

Our contract is full of language that contradicts reality.

I believe in legal terms, you would be correct in that language negotiated after the Kasher Ruling would take precedent.

However, the TWU and AA will team up against the employees once again and issue briefs regarding "intent" of the language.

Thus, the language will not match reality.

It is most interesting how the so-called union and the company are constantly on the same side against employee/union member positions.

Good Luck

 

[aafsc]

<_< Bob----I feel that our presant Contract, which was signed after the last Kasher ruling takes presadance! Art.10e is stright forward in it's meaning! If transferred, (for whatever reason), your ocupational seniority shall not be mest with!!! Kasher aworded me 100%, because at the time of the buy-out I was stationed here at MCI! I believe this was merly a means to establish seniority for the purpose of integrating the work forces, nothing more! Well guess what? We've been intagrated! Our seniority has been etablished! And now the contract, not Kasher, is the governing force in our dayly lifes here at aa!!! My opinion, nothing more!!!

I find it interesting that the TWAers have absolutely no problem accepting the Kasher ruling when going from a 25% or 4/10/01 city TO STL or MCI but want to totally disregard it when going FROM STL or MCI to another city. The precedent was set when the first TWAers went back to their bases and got their full TWA seniority back. You can't have it both ways. The TWAer's hypocracy and sense of entitlement are appalling. The only thing you are entitled to (according to Kasher) is STL and MCI.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< aa------ That's what this topic is all about! You keep harping on Kasher! In my opinon, From the time we signed that last concessionary contract, in 2003, ( and I stress, "we", as both nAAtive, and exTWA employees) that signing was in fact the closeing of intergration of both work groups, and that from that point forward, our Contract was the document that takes presadance in any matters that effect seniority. Now, it seems there is at least one judge that thinks the exTWAers case has merit!!!! We'll have to wait and see if in fact a "jury", sees it that way also!!!!! 😉

 

[aafsc]

<_< aa------ That's what this topic is all about! You keep harping on Kasher! In my opinon, From the time we signed that last concessionary contract, in 2003, ( and I stress, "we", as both nAAtive, and exTWA employees) that signing was in fact the closeing of intergration of both work groups, and that from that point forward, our Contract was the document that takes presadance in any matters that effect seniority. Now, it seems there is at least one judge that thinks the exTWAers case has merit!!!! We'll have to wait and see if in fact a "jury", sees it that way also!!!!! 😉

So do you think that when an ex-TWA person with 30+years goes from say, MIA where his seniority is 4/10/01 to STL, should his seniority stay at 4/10/01 (as you say the contract says it should) or revert to his origional seniority ( as Kasher says it should)? I know this is in court but I am asking what you think.

 

[MCI transplant]

So do you think that when an ex-TWA person with 30+years goes from say, MIA where his seniority is 4/10/01 to STL, should his seniority stay at 4/10/01 (as you say the contract says it should) or revert to his origional seniority ( as Kasher says it should)? I know this is in court but I am asking what you think.

<_< First of all, I'de say to myself: Why would anyone want to??? We're talking reality here! If a person has 30 years seniority in MIA, he's up in age, he has a home and family there! Why would he want to move and give that all up to start over in STL??? Oh I suppose it could happen, but not likely!!!!At this point, how I feel about it really doesn't matter, now does it? I feel this whole thing could have been avoided had the intergration of "all" exTWAers been handled , well, let's just say "Differently"!!!!! 😉

 

[aafsc]

<_< First of all, I'de say to myself: Why would anyone want to??? We're talking reality here! If a person has 30 years seniority in MIA, he's up in age, he has a home and family there! Why would he want to move and give that all up to start over in STL??? Oh I suppose it could happen, but not likely!!!!At this point, how I feel about it really doesn't matter, now does it? I feel this whole thing could have been avoided had the intergration of "all" exTWAers been handled , well, let's just say "Differently"!!!!! 😉

Your definition of "differently" means full dovetail. My and most nAAtives definition would be pure staple. Or better yet this whole thing could have been avoided if Carty would have had half a brain and told Compton to get lost. And there has been ex-TWAers who went from other cities to STL and MCI and they don't necessarily have to have 30 years, I was just using that as an example. They could have 10 or 15 at TWA and be at 4/10/01 at MIA.

 

[MCI transplant]

Your definition of "differently" means full dovetail. My and most nAAtives definition would be pure staple. Or better yet this whole thing could have been avoided if Carty would have had half a brain and told Compton to get lost. And there has been ex-TWAers who went from other cities to STL and MCI and they don't necessarily have to have 30 years, I was just using that as an example. They could have 10 or 15 at TWA and be at 4/10/01 at MIA.

<_< aa------- I feel sorry for you! Get a life! NO!!! I didn't mean full dovetail! There were other means of intergration that were not even concidered! One example: Since there were aprox. 6 nAAtives for every one exTWAer, we could have been sloted in every 6TH. person & soforth! Use of Fences could also have been concedered!! Your always crying about how we would be stealing your jobs! But nothing is said about the fact that TUL is now working about 100+ of our former aircraft! Even though Kasher spacifically said aa shouldn't profit at our expence!!! So who's "Stealing who's jobs????? Your so ate up and insecure it's spilling over into your reponces! I asked if you felt threatened by this latest lawsuit? I think we all know the answeer to that!!!You bet!!!! Oh! Look this up in your polish dictionary! "Putsa via mia dupa!!!" 😛

 

[Hopeful]

Even though Kasher spacifically said aa shouldn't profit at our expence!!! So who's "Stealing who's jobs?????

"And no AA employee shall be adversley impacted" Kasher said!

 

[MCI transplant]

"And no AA employee shall be adversley impacted" Kasher said!

<_< And we're not AAemployees--------?????????? 🙁 :angry:

 

[B.O.B.]

Here we go again...

Another Ex-TWA employee b***h fest! 🙄

 

[Hopeful]

<_< And we're not AAemployees--------?????????? 🙁 :angry:

You were not as of 4/9/01

 

[aafsc]

<_< aa------- I feel sorry for you! Get a life! NO!!! I didn't mean full dovetail! There were other means of intergration that were not even concidered! One example: Since there were aprox. 6 nAAtives for every one exTWAer, we could have been sloted in every 6TH. person & soforth! Use of Fences could also have been concedered!! Your always crying about how we would be stealing your jobs! But nothing is said about the fact that TUL is now working about 100+ of our former aircraft! Even though Kasher spacifically said aa shouldn't profit at our expence!!! So who's "Stealing who's jobs????? Your so ate up and insecure it's spilling over into your reponces! I asked if you felt threatened by this latest lawsuit? I think we all know the answeer to that!!!You bet!!!! Oh! Look this up in your polish dictionary! "Putsa via mia dupa!!!" 😛

The Kasher ruling is pretty much more or less a fence. You keep what you brought and we keep what we brought. Now I know you will say that AA has downsized the TWA bases. This is true because they were significantly weaker than AA's bases. But you and all the others should just look at the the other legacies. US significantly cut back their PIT base, NW has shut down ATL and pretty much abandoned their Duluth facility and dismantled a large chunk of their MSP facilities, UA shut down OAK, IND and SFO is almost a ghost town, Delta shut down their DFW and TPA hangars and farmed out all heavy maintanence. I'm very surprised that AA didn't shut MCI down completly just to "keep up with the Jones's". While TUL may be doing work on some of the ex-TWA aircraft (not 100+ because 20+ are in temporary storage and some have been sold or turned back to the lessors), I can see by looking in sabre that you are getting some super 80s and AA 767-200s and 767-300s. So it is not like you got nothing in return for those ex-TWA super 80s.

And I am not worried about this hypocritical lawsuit. Any good lawyer will show that the TWAers accept the Kasher arbitration when going TO STL and MCI when it benefits them but object to it when they go FROM STL and MCI when it doesn't.

 

[eolesen]

But nothing is said about the fact that TUL is now working about 100+ of our former aircraft!

Point of order... there are fewer than 100 ex-TW aircraft still operating -- 19 757's and about 70 MD80s, give or take a few.

That doesn't include the 25-30 MD80's in ROW which are either in long term storage or being parted out for salvage. Either way, those aircraft aren't being worked in TUL -- they're being worked onsite by AAR.

 

[Vortilon]

The contract concessions do not affect the Kasher ruling period!