Larry Pike of 567 FIRED ?

[Overspeed]

And a CC on the floor at DFW would have this information how? Reportedly the International said they knew nothing about it but you seem to have all the details, we know you didnt get it from Larry, must have gotten it from management.




You were there? Why would a CC from DFW have been there?


Larry Pike earned the support of his members, I'm glad they stood behind him.

Never said I am a CC currently. I was a CC.

Support of his AMFA members more like it. And it was a show. Larry is a waffler and a flip flopper. Probably shouldn't have spouted BS about unsafe aircraft then never expect to be held accountable for it. And he knew it wasn't a termination or a 29f, he did that to pay the martyr. Kind of like you do constantly.

 

[Overspeed]

Well if the "facts" come from a proven liar then they too are suspect. Most of what you have claimed to be facts have been proven to be anything but. Components of your statement may have some facts but when taken as a whole they are usually misleading.

Ok, so you say that you said you worked at D-terminal when you started posting, now what do you mean by that? When you started posting as overspeed in 2011? Or when you started posting perhaps back in 2001 under another alias?





Back to the real story? In other words "Dont pay any attention to that man behind the curtain, the mighty OS has spoken". Whenever you get caught to try and spin your way out, what next another rant about how "Owens and the vote NO coalition" are responsible or the terms you voted in place?

Any meeting with management can result in discipline. You are just so eager to support anything management says, yet you claim you are pro-union (business unionism that is), What in your opinion makes someone a "good Board member? Alligience to appointed officials who while they earn six figure salaries promote concessions?





Why would a board member from 567 share such details, if it actually happened, with some CC from DFW?



So you were there?





Hmm, didnt we give B-scale to AA and at the time claim that concession saved jobs while not cutting anyones pay? In fact wasnt the B-scale concession coupled with Station protection and the biggest wage increases they had ever seen up till that time? What makes B-scale worse than what we have now? I agree that Bscale was a bad idea but you seem to feel that it was only a bad idea for the pilots. I heard Koziatek bragg about B-scale as well, how it created jobs at AA and he said to me that if not for B-scale I probably would not have a job at AA. My response was perhaps he is right, I would have had a job at another carrier and we all would probably be making more if not for B-scale.

Proven liar? Okay Bob, whatever you say. You are the most credible person on this blog. NOT!

Another distraction tactic, not buying in to it. I have made my location known many times. The fact is that Pike lied and his board refused to go along with his BS. It was never a disciplinary hearing I was told. And yes, I contacted an E Brd member. They have phone numbers too and they are posted on the website. I urge everyone who reads this website to do their own fact checking. None of those who post should be above reproach. Call 567 and ask the reps if it was a 29f.

Seham is a shyster. Do you have all of Local 562 members represented at 29f's by an attorney? Only discharges? Does every local do that? No. I know MIA has attorneys put on their cases. It's in their LM2 which makes me wonder, why do the members even pay them salaries. Seham did nothing because their was nothing happening.

B scales have been around for a long time. The fact is if you want to say how great it is to have an attorney representing you at a craft union then the APA and Seham are a perfect example. The TWU did end up accepting the B scale after a tough negotiations. We lived with it until 1992 when it finally went away. That was Koziatek that did that too. The APA, they had the powerful attorney Seham representing them in the 1980s and they got the same outcome. The APA paid him a handsome legal fee and ended up with the same result as the industrial union without the highly paid lawyer. Bob, Seham get's rich from things aren't wins.

 

[Rogallo]

 

[Rogallo]

You are the most credible person on this blog. NOT!

You crack me up. You should do stand-up!!!

 

[Observer]

A Larry Pike non issue, a perfect example of the blind leading the unseeing, with the hand of Seham in his pocket, what a performance Larry. This stupidity reminds me of the famous Atlanta 10 of many years ago, who had an issue and used the safety veil to try for political points, which got those fools really disciplined. Larry on the other hand is a faux complainer. If you had an issue, call the Feds, they got a hot line. Or go to their office on Trinity Blvd, just down the street from AA and APA. Captain Madar out of SSE was a babe in the woods in this scenario. Pike knew this going in, there wasn't any peril awaiting him. To bad it was captured on tape, he could be up for an EMMY AWARD, in the who is the biggest fool category!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Proven liar? Okay Bob, whatever you say. You are the most credible person on this blog. NOT!

Another distraction tactic, not buying in to it. I have made my location known many times. The fact is that Pike lied and his board refused to go along with his BS. It was never a disciplinary hearing I was told. And yes, I contacted an E Brd member. They have phone numbers too and they are posted on the website. I urge everyone who reads this website to do their own fact checking. None of those who post should be above reproach. Call 567 and ask the reps if it was a 29f.

Seham is a shyster. Do you have all of Local 562 members represented at 29f's by an attorney? Only discharges? Does every local do that? No. I know MIA has attorneys put on their cases. It's in their LM2 which makes me wonder, why do the members even pay them salaries. Seham did nothing because their was nothing happening.

B scales have been around for a long time. The fact is if you want to say how great it is to have an attorney representing you at a craft union then the APA and Seham are a perfect example. The TWU did end up accepting the B scale after a tough negotiations. We lived with it until 1992 when it finally went away. That was Koziatek that did that too. The APA, they had the powerful attorney Seham representing them in the 1980s and they got the same outcome. The APA paid him a handsome legal fee and ended up with the same result as the industrial union without the highly paid lawyer. Bob, Seham get's rich from things aren't wins.

Spin spin spin away. Sure Seham gets rich, thats why he went to college to become a lawyer, just like Rosen, Luby, Levine and Richard. Plenty of Unions use lawyers. But why are we paying people with no college education, who only know how to lower our standard of living, like lawyers? I went to school to become a mechanic, all I expected was to be paid like one, but thanks to the people we have running the place that seems to be too much to expect.

B scale didnt go away, it became the new scale. We didnt rise to A scale, A scalers were reduced through concessions and inflation to B-scale.

 

[strikeforce]

Spin spin spin away. Sure Seham gets rich, thats why he went to college to become a lawyer, just like Rosen, Luby, Levine and Richard. Plenty of Unions use lawyers. But why are we paying people with no college education, who only know how to lower our standard of living, like lawyers? I went to school to become a mechanic, all I expected was to be paid like one, but thanks to the people we have running the place that seems to be too much to expect.

B scale didnt go away, it became the new scale. We didnt rise to A scale, A scalers were reduced through concessions and inflation to B-scale.

that's the main problem with organized labor, and the TWU in general......you have FSC, AMT's, Auto mechanics, Cleaners, and others that pretend to be negotiators, arbitrators, benefit administrators, BK attorneys, and lawyers.....instead of leaving those duties to professionals. It's really a disservice to the membership......and, let's not forget, they do pay for a service.

 

[Overspeed]

Spin spin spin away. Sure Seham gets rich, thats why he went to college to become a lawyer, just like Rosen, Luby, Levine and Richard. Plenty of Unions use lawyers. But why are we paying people with no college education, who only know how to lower our standard of living, like lawyers? I went to school to become a mechanic, all I expected was to be paid like one, but thanks to the people we have running the place that seems to be too much to expect.

B scale didnt go away, it became the new scale. We didnt rise to A scale, A scalers were reduced through concessions and inflation to B-scale.

Missed the point again Bob. Seham gets rich and doesn't help people. All the TWU attorneys have represented members many times and gotten their jobs back for far less money. Levine and Roth did a much better job than Seham, How did AMFA fair in BK? They lost all their jobs. Wow! Big win for the AMFA membership! Great advice. Did he waive his fee for that malpractice? $500K to take what? 12 cases a year forward? Wow! How much did he charge the Local to represent Pike? How much did Seham charge the two that got their jobs back?

I went to school to be a mechanic as well and you are getting paid like one. You would have been one of the highest paid but remember you recommended a no vote. Of course be like Fox News, Karl Rove, and Hermann Cain and blame the people who didn't see it your way but in the final analysis, you made a very bad recommendation. The "fight to the last man" mentality served the NWA guys well and you wanted a similar outcome here. Fortunately your hoped for pyrrhic victory never came to fruition at AA.

The fact remains, Seham did not better at the APA than did the TWU without the high lawyer fees. AMFA does get higher pay for AMTs, but only the lucky few that stay. Tell the truth Bob, the only way you can get the Southwest and AS pay rates is to compare the whole contract if it were in place at AA. If that were the case there would be no engine shop (bye bye Pike), much fewer line stations (bye bye JR, Rojas, and Peterson), and only four docks of C Check overhaul (bye bye Dave Stewart).

 

[767 mechanic]

Al Madar was not the only management person in the meeting. Kevin Lyons was there also and he can issue punishment. Anytime you go into a meeting with more than one management person you can be disiplined. So spin #1 solved. How you did observe the demonstration when you are suppose to be at DFW. Fly like Peter Pan? Spin #2 solved. Who were the several board members that you spoke to? I spoke to the majority of them before the meeting and they all said that it was going to be a 29F or corporate investigation. You need to disclose what board members or officers that you talked to or we will assume the usual about you. You are correct that in the meeting they said this was not a 29F,but not before the meeting started. I wonder why Lyons had to leave the room? Do you think it might have been to call headquarters to say hey we have a couple of problems #1 a very large crowd of unhappy employees and #2 Larry brought Lee Seham the AMFA National attorney with him and that scared the crap out of AA and the twu who were the real people that orchestrated this charade. Spin #3 solved. Why would the company tell him to bring counsel if there was not going to discipline? Kind of stupid on the companys part don't you think? Spin #4 solved. So you heard Lee say that the demonstration and his presence is what saved Larrys job. Good hearing you have being able to hear this from DFW. Oh by the way if you heard this why did you have to call the board members? Or is that even true about you calling? Spin #5 solved or is this just a lie? I do believe you have been proven to be a common LIAR again. How many times has this been proven about you 10,20 or maybe 50 times. Oh and as far as B scale goes the twu topped that in 95 with a C scale. Remember mechanic,jr mechanic and srp. Its going to be hard to top that with a D scale but,I'm sure the twu is going to give it one hell of a try.

 

[Overspeed]

Al Madar was not the only management person in the meeting. Kevin Lyons was there also and he can issue punishment. Anytime you go into a meeting with more than one management person you can be disiplined. So spin #1 solved. How you did observe the demonstration when you are suppose to be at DFW. Fly like Peter Pan? Spin #2 solved. Who were the several board members that you spoke to? I spoke to the majority of them before the meeting and they all said that it was going to be a 29F or corporate investigation. You need to disclose what board members or officers that you talked to or we will assume the usual about you. You are correct that in the meeting they said this was not a 29F,but not before the meeting started. I wonder why Lyons had to leave the room? Do you think it might have been to call headquarters to say hey we have a couple of problems #1 a very large crowd of unhappy employees and #2 Larry brought Lee Seham the AMFA National attorney with him and that scared the crap out of AA and the twu who were the real people that orchestrated this charade. Spin #3 solved. Why would the company tell him to bring counsel if there was not going to discipline? Kind of stupid on the companys part don't you think? Spin #4 solved. So you heard Lee say that the demonstration and his presence is what saved Larrys job. Good hearing you have being able to hear this from DFW. Oh by the way if you heard this why did you have to call the board members? Or is that even true about you calling? Spin #5 solved or is this just a lie? I do believe you have been proven to be a common LIAR again. How many times has this been proven about you 10,20 or maybe 50 times. Oh and as far as B scale goes the twu topped that in 95 with a C scale. Remember mechanic,jr mechanic and srp. Its going to be hard to top that with a D scale but,I'm sure the twu is going to give it one hell of a try.

Does Al Madar work at AFW? No so that is most likely why Kevin Lyons was there in addition to the fact that an employee of his, Pike, stated in the news information about unsafe aircraft. AA has to follow up. No spin.

Am I not allowed to call, visit, or talk to people outside my station? Was there not a few hundred people whipped up in to a frenzy over Pike's claim of martyrdom? Again, no spin. The large crowd I am sure did not scare Lyons. I spoke to him several times when he was over in DFW and he does not seem like the type that would be intimidated. I am sure he let others know what was going on instead of reading it from airlineforums.com

The company never asked him to bring counsel. Ask Lorenzi.

Yes I heard Lee said that, second hand however. So I guess in lawyer speak that is hearsay and inadmissible.

The JR mechanic and Apprentice Program have been around for decades. Calm down and breathe. Read the SWA agreement, there have been Apprentice Mechanics at SWA for years. CO, UA, DL, and AS all have utility mechanics, mechanic helpers, or technician helpers. TWU create a C scale, uh no, The other airlines have had it as well for a very, very long time. No spin.

And what about the D scale? That's in the scope clauses of the IBT, IAM, and AMFA agreements. The created it when they allowed tens of thousands of jobs to be outsourced to places that are part time, unlicensed, or worse...in places like China, Korea, Mexico, and El Salvador. But hey, at least you can say that AMFA never agreed to more in house jobs at a lower scale, but you don't tell the whole story do you. AMFA, IBT, and the IAM all gave that work away to non-union chop shops. Sweet!

Welcome to the no spin zone.

 

[Vortilon]

Does Al Madar work at AFW? No so that is most likely why Kevin Lyons was there in addition to the fact that an employee of his, Pike, stated in the news information about unsafe aircraft. AA has to follow up. No spin.

Am I not allowed to call, visit, or talk to people outside my station? Was there not a few hundred people whipped up in to a frenzy over Pike's claim of martyrdom? Again, no spin. The large crowd I am sure did not scare Lyons. I spoke to him several times when he was over in DFW and he does not seem like the type that would be intimidated. I am sure he let others know what was going on instead of reading it from airlineforums.com

The company never asked him to bring counsel. Ask Lorenzi.

Yes I heard Lee said that, second hand however. So I guess in lawyer speak that is hearsay and inadmissible.

The JR mechanic and Apprentice Program have been around for decades. Calm down and breathe. Read the SWA agreement, there have been Apprentice Mechanics at SWA for years. CO, UA, DL, and AS all have utility mechanics, mechanic helpers, or technician helpers. TWU create a C scale, uh no, The other airlines have had it as well for a very, very long time. No spin.

And what about the D scale? That's in the scope clauses of the IBT, IAM, and AMFA agreements. The created it when they allowed tens of thousands of jobs to be outsourced to places that are part time, unlicensed, or worse...in places like China, Korea, Mexico, and El Salvador. But hey, at least you can say that AMFA never agreed to more in house jobs at a lower scale, but you don't tell the whole story do you. AMFA, IBT, and the IAM all gave that work away to non-union chop shops. Sweet!

Welcome to the no spin zone.

TWU apologist... That would be an understatement. Outsourcing MRO work has been around for decades. The TWU is the pioneer in shaving AMT pay and benefits to the point - that what was once a decent paying job, with good benefits is now only a shell of its former self. All in the name of attempting to save doomed jobs in Tulsa. I can hardly wait to see what will happen if some "me too" clause money comes to the TWU as a result of the Pilot TA. Common sense would have it be used to return the lost week of vacation to the AMTs, or correct the stupid "half pay for the first day" on a sick call - or both. With the TWU in charge - common sense goes out the door. No spin zone...you're funny. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining!

 

[DNTULSA]

Does Al Madar work at AFW? No so that is most likely why Kevin Lyons was there in addition to the fact that an employee of his, Pike, stated in the news information about unsafe aircraft. AA has to follow up. No spin.

Am I not allowed to call, visit, or talk to people outside my station? Was there not a few hundred people whipped up in to a frenzy over Pike's claim of martyrdom? Again, no spin. The large crowd I am sure did not scare Lyons. I spoke to him several times when he was over in DFW and he does not seem like the type that would be intimidated. I am sure he let others know what was going on instead of reading it from airlineforums.com

The company never asked him to bring counsel. Ask Lorenzi.

Yes I heard Lee said that, second hand however. So I guess in lawyer speak that is hearsay and inadmissible.

The JR mechanic and Apprentice Program have been around for decades. Calm down and breathe. Read the SWA agreement, there have been Apprentice Mechanics at SWA for years. CO, UA, DL, and AS all have utility mechanics, mechanic helpers, or technician helpers. TWU create a C scale, uh no, The other airlines have had it as well for a very, very long time. No spin.

And what about the D scale? That's in the scope clauses of the IBT, IAM, and AMFA agreements. The created it when they allowed tens of thousands of jobs to be outsourced to places that are part time, unlicensed, or worse...in places like China, Korea, Mexico, and El Salvador. But hey, at least you can say that AMFA never agreed to more in house jobs at a lower scale, but you don't tell the whole story do you. AMFA, IBT, and the IAM all gave that work away to non-union chop shops. Sweet!

Welcome to the no spin zone.

overspeed!

You are back!

And you are lying again!

What a surprise....

 

[Observer]

Madar wanted to talk with Pike because of the comments Pike made to and in the media. Madar, besides being a Captain. holds the position of Managing Director for Safety in the SSE department. I doubt there were any HR people there (they would give advice on discipline issues). Kevin Lyons would have been an "expert" advisor for Madar. Pike bringing a lawyer to a non event again was not worth the expense, but a publicity stunt to cast himself in the victim role, one that he plays quite well.

 

[eolesen]

Spin spin spin away. Sure Seham gets rich, thats why he went to college to become a lawyer, just like Rosen, Luby, Levine and Richard. Plenty of Unions use lawyers. But why are we paying people with no college education, who only know how to lower our standard of living, like lawyers? I went to school to become a mechanic, all I expected was to be paid like one, but thanks to the people we have running the place that seems to be too much to expect.

What's ironic in that statement, Bob, is that many times in the past, you've commented that a using a professional instead of a layperson wasn't necessary when it comes to negotiating with the company... You've claimed that a guy like you does a better job than a professional.

My, how times change.

 

[737823]

Missed the point again Bob. Seham gets rich and doesn't help people. All the TWU attorneys have represented members many times and gotten their jobs back for far less money. Levine and Roth did a much better job than Seham, How did AMFA fair in BK? They lost all their jobs. Wow! Big win for the AMFA membership! Great advice. Did he waive his fee for that malpractice? $500K to take what? 12 cases a year forward? Wow! How much did he charge the Local to represent Pike? How much did Seham charge the two that got their jobs back?

I went to school to be a mechanic as well and you are getting paid like one. You would have been one of the highest paid but remember you recommended a no vote. Of course be like Fox News, Karl Rove, and Hermann Cain and blame the people who didn't see it your way but in the final analysis, you made a very bad recommendation. The "fight to the last man" mentality served the NWA guys well and you wanted a similar outcome here. Fortunately your hoped for pyrrhic victory never came to fruition at AA.

The fact remains, Seham did not better at the APA than did the TWU without the high lawyer fees. AMFA does get higher pay for AMTs, but only the lucky few that stay. Tell the truth Bob, the only way you can get the Southwest and AS pay rates is to compare the whole contract if it were in place at AA. If that were the case there would be no engine shop (bye bye Pike), much fewer line stations (bye bye JR, Rojas, and Peterson), and only four docks of C Check overhaul (bye bye Dave Stewart).

Overspeed, again it seems you don't like the discussion about international reps and legal counsel to take place. Are you sure you don't have an affiliation that causes concern for you? And btw, the context of legal counsel here is in negotiations, not getting jobs back as a result of wrongful termination. Seems you are again trying to distract people from their real issues and concerns about the TWU.

Josh