Larry Pike of 567 FIRED ?

[comatose]

I've heard that excuse before that's exactly what it it, an excuse. Especially since have seen guys with 20-25 years leave AA.

Well ed this is my last airline paycheck, not going to midnights. Since I've have more than that, yes its an anchor.

 

[swamt]

The MD80 is a bad example. DL had close to 150 MD80s and they had similar wiring issues. FAA allowed DL to get an AMOC granted while AA got shafted. Why? Could it be that the Feds have long been arguing outsourcing is safer and now here comes AA with its in house maintenance and they slam AA but let DL slide who had their stuff done by an outsourcer.

The new TWU language is actually better considering the sources of information. The maintenance spend noted in the TWU contract has to do with direct labor and materials. The maintenance spend you refer to is the total spend which includes all management, lights, rent, heat, and other non-labor related expenses. The formula was tweaked because MHs varies so greatly and is not a good external measure. Why? Because if the MRO does a 5,000 MH C Check at $50/hour and AAwould have to do it with half the people at $100/hour. The better measure is cost because who cares how many people the. MRO puts on it, it's the total cost of their check versus the I house check. The other stuff like late out of check and delays matters but that is only if the airline wasn't smart enough to figure in service level guarantees. Southwest is good at outsourcing evidently, they aren't falling all over themselves to get AMFA mechanics to do it. AMFA needs to put its, only where it's mouth is and bring in more work at southwest.

As you already know and as WNMECH has explained to you, AMFA has brought more maint in house in the short time they have represented SWA mechs, than the teamsters have in the 28 years they represented SWA mechs. AMFA is also currently working on bringing in the 717 maint in house, as well as some mod lines and the 4th line of maint. next year. AMFA has also nego much much better language that the teamsters left wide open for outsourcing out of the country. In the 28 years the teamsters were here they were able to only maintain 2 lines of heavy maint in Dallas, a "C" Check (that was later loss to PHX) then brought back to Dallas under AMFA, and they had a HGR RON crew. Since the teamsters were fired, AMFA has been directly responsible for 2 lines of heavy being added to Dallas maint. one in work currently and one starting next year by July (currently hiring experienced mechs off the street for this maint line). They have also brought back the "C" Check line with premium shifts, and days off. Before it was 10hr graves shift. When they brought it back it went to 10hr Days and Eves and with more premium positions added to cover both shifts. AMFA has also brought in several mod lines from winglet mods to the now new interior mod. Next year there will be more added mod lines, 717 maint., as well as the added 4th line.
AMFA can't undue what the teamsters already gave away for the pathetic 28 years of what they call representation. However, they did in fact start plugging all the holes that the teamsters left us with. If you want to compare between the teamsters and AMFA bringing in maint, by far, AMFA has out performed the teamsters by a mile...

 

[swamt]

I've heard that excuse before that's exactly what it it, an excuse. Especially since have seen guys with 20-25 years leave AA.

We just had a new hire start on our crew from AA DFW and he had 28 years with AA. I believe this guy will be the leader in previous years at AA and leaving on his own to start all over. This speaks volumes. Good luck to this new employee and, get back to work "probie"...

 

[Overspeed]

As you already know and as WNMECH has explained to you, AMFA has brought more maint in house in the short time they have represented SWA mechs, than the teamsters have in the 28 years they represented SWA mechs. AMFA is also currently working on bringing in the 717 maint in house, as well as some mod lines and the 4th line of maint. next year. AMFA has also nego much much better language that the teamsters left wide open for outsourcing out of the country. In the 28 years the teamsters were here they were able to only maintain 2 lines of heavy maint in Dallas, a "C" Check (that was later loss to PHX) then brought back to Dallas under AMFA, and they had a HGR RON crew. Since the teamsters were fired, AMFA has been directly responsible for 2 lines of heavy being added to Dallas maint. one in work currently and one starting next year by July (currently hiring experienced mechs off the street for this maint line). They have also brought back the "C" Check line with premium shifts, and days off. Before it was 10hr graves shift. When they brought it back it went to 10hr Days and Eves and with more premium positions added to cover both shifts. AMFA has also brought in several mod lines from winglet mods to the now new interior mod. Next year there will be more added mod lines, 717 maint., as well as the added 4th line.
AMFA can't undue what the teamsters already gave away for the pathetic 28 years of what they call representation. However, they did in fact start plugging all the holes that the teamsters left us with. If you want to compare between the teamsters and AMFA bringing in maint, by far, AMFA has out performed the teamsters by a mile...

Negative bro. AMFA did not bring any work in due to their negotiating prowess. In fact isn't Mr. Sokol pushing to get the 4th line dropped at PHX? Let's see how AMFA sticks to it's guns there. The new lines arrived due to the rapid addition of aircraft. So you went from 291 aircraft in 1999 to over 600 by 2012. IBT had two lines at 291 or 145 aircraft to each C Check line so now today with around 625 you will have 4 or...wait for it...still one C Check line for every 145 aircraft under the IBT agreement. So AMFA did nothing but perpetuate the IBT past practice. AMFA still riding on the IBT coat tails.

Is there something wrong with AMFA members in PHX? Why do you say AMFA brought a line back from PHX to DAL?

 

[TWU informer]

Negative bro. AMFA did not bring any work in due to their negotiating prowess. In fact isn't Mr. Sokol pushing to get the 4th line dropped at PHX? Let's see how AMFA sticks to it's guns there. The new lines arrived due to the rapid addition of aircraft. So you went from 291 aircraft in 1999 to over 600 by 2012. IBT had two lines at 291 or 145 aircraft to each C Check line so now today with around 625 you will have 4 or...wait for it...still one C Check line for every 145 aircraft under the IBT agreement. So AMFA did nothing but perpetuate the IBT past practice. AMFA still riding on the IBT coat tails.

Is there something wrong with AMFA members in PHX? Why do you say AMFA brought a line back from PHX to DAL?

Do you suggest that AMFA allow for OSM wages without license pay on heavy overhaul to get more work in-house?

How about some TWU hiring of relatives that have no skill and no experience? You know wives, daughters, brothers, sisters, hell anyone that wants a job. How about some security guards, staff assistants, canteen vending machine refill techs, and a few toilet cleaners to boot?

Is that your version of successful representation? You know just degrade the skill level and the accountability level that the work leaves anyway, regardless of the pay. Then SWA can have them become their management team like AA did, and then regardless of pay and benefits overhaul doesn't stand a chance because there is no management or skill left in the work force. Great plan if you want to FAIL!

 

[Overspeed]

Do you suggest that AMFA allow for OSM wages without license pay on heavy overhaul to get more work in-house?

How about some TWU hiring of relatives that have no skill and no experience? You know wives, daughters, brothers, sisters, hell anyone that wants a job. How about some security guards, staff assistants, canteen vending machine refill techs, and a few toilet cleaners to boot?

Is that your version of successful representation? You know just degrade the skill level and the accountability level that the work leaves anyway, regardless of the pay. Then SWA can have them become their management team like AA did, and then regardless of pay and benefits overhaul doesn't stand a chance because there is no management or skill left in the work force. Great plan if you want to FAIL!

Read WN management's proposals. It will be interesting to see how AMFA "fights" based on what Sokol wants. From AMFA update.



The discussions again started with the [background=rgb(255, 255, 0)]Company looking for full relief from having to start the fourth [/background][background=rgb(255, 255, 0)]line of heavy maintenance[/background] along with the other issues they discussed with the Committee on September 12, 2012.

• Option 1 - [background=rgb(255, 255, 0)]Alternative wage scales[/background] and other components of pay, change in attendance program (Absent Management Program), no paid lunch, no paid rest, change in backfill language, review of shop work and potential realignment,[background=rgb(255, 255, 0)] no downline service for GSE[/background], [background=rgb(255, 255, 0)]review of outsource language (headcount per aircraft)[/background], day trade reform, language for international downline work, language to insert Technical Training Instructors & Maintenance Controllers classifications into agreement along with separate pay scales and work rules, [background=rgb(255, 255, 0)]rewrite of fourth line[/background] language, ETOP’s language, specialty training, [background=rgb(255, 255, 0)]ability to outsource internationally[/background], review of LOAs #1 and #2 and the elimination of pending grievances except terminations
• Option 2 - [background=rgb(255, 255, 0)]Alternative wage scales[/background] and other components of pay, ETOP’s language, [background=rgb(255, 255, 0)]rewrite of fourth line language, headcount per aircraft ratio[/background]. We explained we were not going to choose either option and then presented the Company with our section 6 bullet point proposal list. We ended the day agreeing to start work on Article 4 Classifications and inserting Technical Training Instructors & Maintenance Controllers classifications.

 

[Overspeed]

How about some TWU hiring of relatives that have no skill and no experience?

Since we are bringing up conflict of interest, didn't Cleary at USAPA bring up the fact that one of Seham's attorney's was going out with the USAPA VP? Conflict of interest was brought up in the over billing issue by Seham's firm. Guess that doesn't count.

 

[WNMECH]

Read WN management's proposals. It will be interesting to see how AMFA "fights" based on what Sokol wants.



We explained we were not going to choose either option and then presented the Company with our section 6 bullet point proposal list.

Our answer was in the same update.

We are not the TWU, how do you think they are going to force one of these options on us?

 

[WNMECH]

Since we are bringing up conflict of interest, didn't Cleary at USAPA bring up the fact that one of Seham's attorney's was going out with the USAPA VP? Conflict of interest was brought up in the over billing issue by Seham's firm. Guess that doesn't count.

That lawyer was fired from Seham's firm.
Then she was accused of sending false emails that resulted in a lawsuit against her and the VP.
I don't know how that suit is going but the email address was traced to her and she was caught red handed.

 

[Realityck]

Overspeed, on 28 November 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

Negative bro. AMFA did not bring any work in due to their negotiating prowess. In fact isn't Mr. Sokol pushing to get the 4th line dropped at PHX? Let's see how AMFA sticks to it's guns there. The new lines arrived due to the rapid addition of aircraft. So you went from 291 aircraft in 1999 to over 600 by 2012. IBT had two lines at 291 or 145 aircraft to each C Check line so now today with around 625 you will have 4 or...wait for it...still one C Check line for every 145 aircraft under the IBT agreement. So AMFA did nothing but perpetuate the IBT past practice. AMFA still riding on the IBT coat tails.


Read WN management's proposals. It will be interesting to see how AMFA "fights" based on what Sokol wants. From AMFA update.

The discussions again started with the Company looking for full relief from having to start the fourth line of heavy maintenance along with the other issues they discussed with the Committee on September 12, 2012.

• Option 1 - Alternative wage scales and other components of pay, change in attendance program (Absent Management Program), no paid lunch, no paid rest, change in backfill language, review of shop work and potential realignment, no downline service for GSE, review of outsource language (headcount per aircraft), day trade reform, language for international downline work, language to insert Technical Training Instructors & Maintenance Controllers classifications into agreement along with separate pay scales and work rules, rewrite of fourth line language, ETOP’s language, specialty training, ability to outsource internationally, review of LOAs #1 and #2 and the elimination of pending grievances except terminations

Option 2 - Alternative wage scales and other components of pay, ETOP’s language, rewrite of fourth line language, headcount per aircraft ratio. We explained we were not going to choose either option and then presented the Company with our section 6 bullet point proposal list. We ended the day agreeing to start work on Article 4 Classifications and inserting Technical Training Instructors & Maintenance Controllers classifications.

At Southwest Airlines Co , which has built a reputation for stellar employee relations despite being the industry's most heavily unionized carrier, concern is rising that the need to control costs could spur labor clashes.

as the saying goes, "reality's a ####!"

 

[Tex-Mech]

Option 1 - Alternative wage scales and other components of pay, change in attendance program (Absent Management Program), no paid lunch, no paid rest, change in backfill language, review of shop work and potential realignment, no downline service for GSE, review of outsource language (headcount per aircraft), day trade reform, language for international downline work, language to insert Technical Training Instructors & Maintenance Controllers classifications into agreement along with separate pay scales and work rules, rewrite of fourth line language, ETOP’s language, specialty training, ability to outsource internationally, review of LOAs #1 and #2 and the elimination of pending grievances except terminations

Option 1 would be about a dozen or two concessions short of the recent twu debacle. We have had most of this stuff for years now.

 

[Overspeed]

Option 1 would be about a dozen or two concessions short of the recent twu debacle. We have had most of this stuff for years now.

Really? They want to add more outsourcing in option 1 beyond the existing outsourcing of all engines and components. Under Option 1 at AA all of TAESL, PALM, CRO, and TUL AO would be gone. Only DWH would remain. Horton would love to have you negotiating!

 

[WNMECH]

as the saying goes, "reality's a ####!"

Not really.
They always start out asking for the moon.

We gave them our option 1 and 2.

NO and HELL NO.

I will ask you the same question I asked before.
How do you think they will force us to take their option 1,or 2 ?

Answer, they won't.

We are not in bankruptcy and we are still making profits. There is no bankruptcy judge here telling us we have to and we don't have the TWU here telling us we better take their ridicules first offer.

 

[swamt]

Negative bro. AMFA did not bring any work in due to their negotiating prowess. In fact isn't Mr. Sokol pushing to get the 4th line dropped at PHX? Let's see how AMFA sticks to it's guns there. The new lines arrived due to the rapid addition of aircraft. So you went from 291 aircraft in 1999 to over 600 by 2012. IBT had two lines at 291 or 145 aircraft to each C Check line so now today with around 625 you will have 4 or...wait for it...still one C Check line for every 145 aircraft under the IBT agreement. So AMFA did nothing but perpetuate the IBT past practice. AMFA still riding on the IBT coat tails.

Is there something wrong with AMFA members in PHX? Why do you say AMFA brought a line back from PHX to DAL?

Wrong again Overspeed, as normal. AMFA has been and is now nego more maint to come in house. And BTW, how the hell do you know otherwise? You do not. Read the contract dummy. It's all there in writing.
Yes the SWA is trying to get the 4th line removed. They will not succeed. It's a hell no from all. Secondly, it's not gonna be done in PHX it will be done in Dallas. As far as the checks being moved from PHX to Dallas, it had a major issue with parts storage and availability for the line of maint as well as the aging A/C (older 300's).
AMFA is not riding the ibt coat tails as you suggest. AMFA has put the ibt to shame since they were fired from SWA. AMFA has, in fact, filled alot of holes in the past ibt contracts. AMFA has brought in more maint in house than the teamsters have done in their 28 yrs at SWA, Period, end of story. Nice try Overspeed, but you really know nothing about how much work has been brought in house at SWA, rather it was ibt or AMFA. BTW; your little ratio aspect of number of "C" lines done from back then to now is incorrect. Try redoing your resurch and take another guess, your way off, and, wait and see how the "C" check maint will continue to grow in new cities like ALT as well as MCO and other stations.
I still love it how outsiders tell us all how SWA maint is being run. Once again, get all your info correct prior to posting. And pls keep posting, you really are helping the AMFA drive at AA. Carry on gentlemen...

 

[swamt]

Not really.
They always start out asking for the moon.

We gave them our option 1 and 2.

NO and HELL NO.

I will ask you the same question I asked before.
How do you think they will force us to take their option 1,or 2 ?

Answer, they won't.

We are not in bankruptcy and we are still making profits. There is no bankruptcy judge here telling us we have to and we don't have the TWU here telling us we better take their ridicules first offer.

AMEN Brother...