After reviewing 74-1M, and being somewhat confused with it's meaning and full purpose, why would AMFA wish to withdraw this letter? Is this a precursor to some form of "fence" language for certain areas with the upcoming layoffs? B)
Layoff Rumors At Sfo
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UAL_TECH
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Ronin,
Maybe paragraph 3?
"must bump in skill"
That's all I could make of it.
Thoughts/conjecture?
Take Care,
:blink: UAL_TECH
Maybe paragraph 3?
"must bump in skill"
That's all I could make of it.
Thoughts/conjecture?
Take Care,
:blink: UAL_TECH
blueskies4ever
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"must bump in skill"
Yes A+P must bump A+P there is only a few kinds of mechanics represented in the
contract Inspector,Lead Mechanic,Mechanic,and a few more.So now the junior
people will HAVE TO GO TO THE STREET instead of taking places that a more senior tech should have.No more R+E's staying while senior mechanics are laid off.
So on the next layoff it will be by company seniority and nothing else.
Yes A+P must bump A+P there is only a few kinds of mechanics represented in the
contract Inspector,Lead Mechanic,Mechanic,and a few more.So now the junior
people will HAVE TO GO TO THE STREET instead of taking places that a more senior tech should have.No more R+E's staying while senior mechanics are laid off.
So on the next layoff it will be by company seniority and nothing else.
blueskies4ever
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After reviewing 74-1M, and being somewhat confused with it's meaning and full purpose, why would AMFA wish to withdraw this letter? Is this a precursor to some form of "fence" language for certain areas with the upcoming layoffs?
No its not fence language its to put all mechaniics on the same list and start laying
off from the bottom of that list seems pretty fair to me.The shop reps have been
briefing item lately so if you work at UAL you will find out about it.
Blueskiesforever:
QUOTE
The rumor I heard to was that AMFA has discussed doing away with Letter
74 1-M.
No its a fact the letter will expire on July 1 2004 and Mr Al Kohler is steaming
mad about AMFA's refusal to go along with the crappy IAM LOA.
No its not fence language its to put all mechaniics on the same list and start laying
off from the bottom of that list seems pretty fair to me.The shop reps have been
briefing item lately so if you work at UAL you will find out about it.
Blueskiesforever:
QUOTE
The rumor I heard to was that AMFA has discussed doing away with Letter
74 1-M.
No its a fact the letter will expire on July 1 2004 and Mr Al Kohler is steaming
mad about AMFA's refusal to go along with the crappy IAM LOA.
I definitely don’t understand this at all. From what I read, it seems to me that this really IS fence language. Letter 75-2 still stands and requires testing into any skill that requires it. Letter 74-1 allowed a mechanic within a 5 yr window of working that skill NOT to test and directly bump into it. Seems to me RQ, GQ, and RE’s will still require minimum skill pre-requisites and TESTING before allowing bumping. This in my opinion would constitute a “fenceâ€. They know a layoff is coming, otherwise why all of this out of the blue.
Don't you just love it
Don't you just love it
Talked to a foreman I worked for many years with. He said he had a meeting with his manager and was asked to take early retirement. They are trying to get people to leave or take voluntary leave (furlough) before they permanently place people on furlough. I asked about mechanics and was told that they are looking at voluntary leaves again and probably would follow with layoffs. The manager expressed to him that at their meeting, this was being discussed with all departments at UAL. Didn’t UAL just bring back F/A’s from voluntary leaves? Are we not increasing flights? I asked around, I took 3 months off last time, and my manager said no way. Also said he had heard nothing regarding this. Just goes to show, NOBODY knows what the f*** goes on at UAL. Ya just gotta love it
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
As disconcerting as this may sound, the response from the LEC (Local 9) has been aggressive and positive in support of the AMFA constitution in refuting the actions of the ALR’s.
http://www.amfa9.org/74-1M%20cancellation.htm
Our ALR’s have taken it upon themselves to act on our behalf without our input. (Sound Familiar?) in defiance of the AMFA constitution.
I must admit, that I am not merely ‘upset’ with this predicament, but I am ‘immensely’ disappointed with the actions of the ALR’s.
The actions of the ALR’s have put ‘our’ credibility as a democratic union in question and I (and my peers) are PISSED!!!
To The ALR’s:
If you have any principles and ‘Unionism’ that you once politicized when campaigning for your position, then you should step down from your post before your are recalled!!!
Bottom line: We trusted you – You Lied...
JMHO,
UT
http://www.amfa9.org/74-1M%20cancellation.htm
Our ALR’s have taken it upon themselves to act on our behalf without our input. (Sound Familiar?) in defiance of the AMFA constitution.
I must admit, that I am not merely ‘upset’ with this predicament, but I am ‘immensely’ disappointed with the actions of the ALR’s.
The actions of the ALR’s have put ‘our’ credibility as a democratic union in question and I (and my peers) are PISSED!!!
To The ALR’s:
If you have any principles and ‘Unionism’ that you once politicized when campaigning for your position, then you should step down from your post before your are recalled!!!
Bottom line: We trusted you – You Lied...
JMHO,
UT
blueskies4ever
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"I must admit, that I am not merely ‘upset’ with this predicament, but I am ‘immensely’ disappointed with the actions of the ALR’s"
UAL_TECH were you ever just as upset that people have been laid off out of
seniority ? That letter created classes of mechanics that dont exist in the contract.
Here are the job classification excluding utility our book covers:
Lead Mechanic
Aircraft Inspector
Shop Inspector
Mechanic
Mechanic's Helper
Apprentice Mechanic
Lead Ground Communications Technician
Ground Communications Technician
Flight Simulator Technician
Lead Flight Simulator Technician
Computer Technician
Lead Computer Technician
Metrologists
Which one are you?? So aside from the way they cancelled the letter what are
you troubled about?
UAL_TECH were you ever just as upset that people have been laid off out of
seniority ? That letter created classes of mechanics that dont exist in the contract.
Here are the job classification excluding utility our book covers:
Lead Mechanic
Aircraft Inspector
Shop Inspector
Mechanic
Mechanic's Helper
Apprentice Mechanic
Lead Ground Communications Technician
Ground Communications Technician
Flight Simulator Technician
Lead Flight Simulator Technician
Computer Technician
Lead Computer Technician
Metrologists
Which one are you?? So aside from the way they cancelled the letter what are
you troubled about?
UAL Tech....this guy doesn't read too well does he? Someone obviously has "explained" this letter to him. I have read ALL the material over and over. The "gist" of the letter was beneficial to senior employees who are laid off from their point to ALLOW them the ability to CHOOSE with their senority WHERE they would like to bump INSTEAD of being forced to bump to the most junior employee and probably a lousy point in the system. Read the WEBSITE and all the links and charts. Article Xj2 states if he cannot hold the point in his BASIC senority he will have options to bid in his BASIC classification to an point he can.
Your argument is that according to the definitions of the contract, we are all just mechanics and therefor everyone is just a basic mechanic. I can assure you, if an arbitrator or lawyer takes the other language such as licensing, qualifications, re-current qualifications which are governed under the contract and Uniteds AOM, you'll find that the company has pretty good legs to stand on.
Don't you just love it
blueskies4ever
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Well Ronin you must be an R+E or one the people working in a class
thats not spelled out in the contract.The letter is gone so if you have the time
you stay if not its bye bye.That is as it should be.By the book isnt that another reason we voted for our union?No ratios.2001 seniority people still working my
station while 1991 people are laid off is bullcrap.
Which is more important your petty problem of where you can bump or
the fact some folks are without jobs because of 741m.I would and am more concerned mechanics are laid off unjustly.
During negotiations the Company and the Union discussed the bumping rights of laid off
employees and the options to be offered to Mechanics who are presently or have recently
successfully worked in two or more Mechanic job skills. Accordingly, on a trial basis, the
Union and the Company have agreed that the following system will be used in place of
Article X, Paragraphs J-1 and J-2, of the Mechanics' Agreement and similar provisions of
the Ramp and Stores and Food Services Agreements.
Looks like they arent using Art X J-1 AND J-2 and it was supposed to be temporary
anyway.
thats not spelled out in the contract.The letter is gone so if you have the time
you stay if not its bye bye.That is as it should be.By the book isnt that another reason we voted for our union?No ratios.2001 seniority people still working my
station while 1991 people are laid off is bullcrap.
Which is more important your petty problem of where you can bump or
the fact some folks are without jobs because of 741m.I would and am more concerned mechanics are laid off unjustly.
During negotiations the Company and the Union discussed the bumping rights of laid off
employees and the options to be offered to Mechanics who are presently or have recently
successfully worked in two or more Mechanic job skills. Accordingly, on a trial basis, the
Union and the Company have agreed that the following system will be used in place of
Article X, Paragraphs J-1 and J-2, of the Mechanics' Agreement and similar provisions of
the Ramp and Stores and Food Services Agreements.
Looks like they arent using Art X J-1 AND J-2 and it was supposed to be temporary
anyway.
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
Blueskies4ever,
Ronin has it right. Go back and re-read the information posted on the AMFA9 website.
Regardless, my objection would be the same even if they ‘negotiated’ us a raise. My contention is that the ALR’s operated in secrecy without giving the membership the opportunity to decide which is right or wrong. I thought it was bad enough when the ALR’s disbanded the ‘Blue Ribbon Committee’ without input from the membership, but now, it seems that they believe that they can do whatever they want without giving ‘us’ the democratic due process as is stipulated in our constitution.
Bottom line is the ALR’s actions are in direct violation of the AMFA constitution. If you feel comfortable with the ALR’s making secret, arbitrary (and in this case incorrect) decisions for you, that’s fine for you, but I’m not buying it. What will you say the ‘next’ time that they do this?
We had this type of arrogance before and the ALR’s should be held accountable for their decision.
UT
Ronin has it right. Go back and re-read the information posted on the AMFA9 website.
Regardless, my objection would be the same even if they ‘negotiated’ us a raise. My contention is that the ALR’s operated in secrecy without giving the membership the opportunity to decide which is right or wrong. I thought it was bad enough when the ALR’s disbanded the ‘Blue Ribbon Committee’ without input from the membership, but now, it seems that they believe that they can do whatever they want without giving ‘us’ the democratic due process as is stipulated in our constitution.
Bottom line is the ALR’s actions are in direct violation of the AMFA constitution. If you feel comfortable with the ALR’s making secret, arbitrary (and in this case incorrect) decisions for you, that’s fine for you, but I’m not buying it. What will you say the ‘next’ time that they do this?
We had this type of arrogance before and the ALR’s should be held accountable for their decision.
UT
Right you are my friend. Do you think 74-1 changes anything? You are mistaken. Now if I would rather bump to LAX instead of JFK, guess what? I can't, but a junior man to me can. Because as being senior I HAVE to fill the most junior position FIRST, instead of the latitude allowed by 74-1, which would have let me, chosen my station. Justice? But, lets put it this way. We are BK slick, period. Your language is about as good as the toilet paper I use every morning. If the company feels it is in their best interest, they'll do whatever they want to do. Personally, I wish the contract had been abrogated, and I've been here for almost 2 decades. I have a lot of friends in the instrument shop. Could bump half of them. So here is your scenario, because of my seniority I should push a fully qualified trained individual to the street to do something I have no idea of doing? And why my "brothers" are waiting at the stations for their LRU, planes are AOG, I'm thumbing through some manual or stumbling with test equipment possibly doing more damage while my company is teetering on ch7. It is exactly this mentality in my opinion to why we are now missing 6000 mechanics because of slugs with 1930 union mentality are dragging this profession into extinction. But lets put this another way. I have too many linemen on my football team. But my linemen have been on the team longer than my wide receivers. Obviously I need to cut a wide receiver to make room for a lineman at the wide receiver position. Somehow, I don't think your team is going to the superbowl. Go United!!!
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
Blueskies4ever,
I must admit, you are more of a ‘unionist’ than I am.
When the unlicensed mechanics start bumping A&P’s on the line and docks, how many licensed mechanics do we legally have to keep, or will the supervisor just sign off the work?
Is this something that the ALR's are negotiating also?
Maybe we could get input from TIMCO and see how they do it.
This could be interesting.
UT
I must admit, you are more of a ‘unionist’ than I am.
When the unlicensed mechanics start bumping A&P’s on the line and docks, how many licensed mechanics do we legally have to keep, or will the supervisor just sign off the work?
Is this something that the ALR's are negotiating also?
Maybe we could get input from TIMCO and see how they do it.
This could be interesting.
UT
JungleClone
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I believe most of the layoff rumors that you're hearing are tied to our Plan B in the event we do not get the ATSB loan guarantee. However, we've been told that regardless of the loan guarantee, headcounts may be cut in the Fall due to the increase in fuel prices and the fact that we will spend an estimated additional $750 million on fuel this year than was budgeted.
Let's be realistic, if the loan guarantee, doesn't happen, things are going to get extremely ugly very quickly. My opinion is that United Senior Mgmt will have no other choice than to implement the Plan B they say they don't have, but we all know exists. Unless some White Knight flies in from out of the woodwork, you'll see quite a bit of flight/network pruning, layoffs, more concessions and a possible change in senior mgmt. Word on the street has the yea or nay on the loan coming no later than the 28th.
Let's be realistic, if the loan guarantee, doesn't happen, things are going to get extremely ugly very quickly. My opinion is that United Senior Mgmt will have no other choice than to implement the Plan B they say they don't have, but we all know exists. Unless some White Knight flies in from out of the woodwork, you'll see quite a bit of flight/network pruning, layoffs, more concessions and a possible change in senior mgmt. Word on the street has the yea or nay on the loan coming no later than the 28th.
You are probably right. I have sent letters to both my congressional and senatorial representation urging them to support our application. Though I believe past behavior (pilots) and bad management should not be rewarded, it is the rank and file worker and the communities that they live in that ultimately pay the price. Why those that should be held accountable never will be, either morally or criminally, is a prime example of the hypocritical culture we promote around the world. And we wonder why they don't love us for it
