Layoff Rumors At Sfo

[Segue]

Thats like separating a piglet from a momma sow, what a hell raising event that would be....no, I don't think they want to do that because our management isn't trained nor designed to run a profitable company. And tremendous restructuring would have to occur within. Could it be done....maybe. Could it be done and still keep UAL flying....pretty iffy. :blink:

Don't want to do it? I think they are doing it already.....you might want to pay more attention to what your company is doing and some of the great strides they have made.....

http://www.aviation-industry.com/atem/newp...s/AFAM31mro.pdf

 

[mrfish3726]

After the last maintenance shake down, I still think that UAL wants to shed all it's maintenance except for the required FAA mechanics ratio. They'd get rid of that to if they could. As Pete Mcdonald said when he was in charge of the operations side of the house. "We are in the people moving business, not the maintenance business".

It's sad to hear that from management, but UAL has been wanting to shed it's maintenance costs for decades. While rivals like AA never even considered closing down their MRO's. UAL will regret it's slicing and dicing one day when they loose control of their Quality Assurance. They will never learn how important it is to keep as much maintenance under your control as possible.

Good luck to the mechanics rank and file. Like most, you still have enough experience to move into other fields of employment. The glory days of aviation have disappeared FOREVER!

 

[The Ronin]

Don't want to do it? I think they are doing it already.....you might want to pay more attention to what your company is doing and some of the great strides they have made...

Great strides they have made???? Yeah, I guess if you call "stealing", "lying", "mis-leading" and up-ending the lives of over 6000 people and their families "a great stride" while doing not much more than creating new catch phrases like " LEAN PROCESSES" great strides....why yes, they are just well....DYNAMIC....
My reference is to the current management structure at United Services, and it is they that I don't believe wish this to occur because they know they cannot compete they way they are currently structured.

 

[mrfish3726]

Ronin,

And you know the likes of that management team all will survive long after more maintenance employees hit the pavement. I was always appauled how they needed 3 supervisor on a dock per shift to over see 40 mechanics, INCREDIBLE! :angry:

 

[Segue]

Great strides they have made???? Yeah, I guess if you call "stealing", "lying", "mis-leading" and up-ending the lives of over 6000 people and their families "a great stride" while doing not much more than creating new catch phrases like " LEAN PROCESSES" great strides....why yes, they are just well....DYNAMIC....
My reference is to the current management structure at United Services, and it is they that I don't believe wish this to occur because they know they cannot compete they way they are currently structured.

So I don't get your point.....If they can bring extra work from other airlines in, is that not a good thing? More jobs for you, right? Should you not judge them on their results?

 

[The Ronin]

Unfortunately....I am judging them on their results. Look, we've got bimbo's who obtained their job because of some stupid quota that said we need more bimbo's, who do not know jack sh*t about airplanes, crew dynamics or anything else trying to sell our work to customers. Hopefully the customer reps don't know jack sh*t so they can all sit down and have a "meeting" and then everyone can feel like they have accomplished something. Of course, when the bill comes due and the "numbers" aren't right, it's the lazy, worthless union mechanics fault and not the stupid bimbo's who had no idea what it would take to do the work she bid on. So we shut down the line, lay off the mechanics and promote the "lady", and the cycle goes on and on and on and on....and just to show you I'm not sexist....that's pretty much they way it is with most of our management...oh...I forgot, now that we promoted this fine management person, we now need to fill the void she created and find the next fine quota available...and while we're at it, lets all go and have a meeting, I'm sure a brainstorm is just a brewing

 

[PRATT4056]

Ronin,

And you know the likes of that management team all will survive long after more maintenance employees hit the pavement. I was always appauled how they needed 3 supervisor on a dock per shift to over see 40 mechanics, INCREDIBLE! :angry:

At The Oakland Maintenance Base we had 5 to 6 supervisors for one dock on one shift. Most of them played card games on the internet all night. When the base closed only 2 supervisors lost their jobs one for falsifying records and the other one because he only had one year senority. He was a manager at applebees restaurant before hiring on with ual. All the rest are hiding in San Fran after the base closure and they where already top heavy with supervisors. They do take care of their own and hide them very well. Pratt.

 

[UAL_TECH]

It looks like the plan is to have one supervisor per lead group.

'SOMEDAY'(???) the DIP financiers are going to have a look at our bloated management numbers and make adjustments accordingly.

UAL has 41 VP's and AA has 14 VP's.
With each VP, there is support staff, GM's, and Managers.
How much of the retirement package of the 'executives' will be terminated?

:blink: UT

 

[crossfeed]

Info on SFO layoffs. 100 line, 74 components, ie brakes..., 30 engines, plus other odds, and ends. 228 total.

 

[UAL_TECH]

"Rumor is" that the components layoff numbers were bumped up recently.

But not to worry, we just hired another supervisor in an area that will see 50(ish) layoffs.

4 more supervisors for docks.

Is our 'Goal' to be a one to one supervisor to employee ratio?
Doesn't sound very 'Lean' !!!

This makes perfect sense to me as the "hens" in the "hen-house" are still making the poor decisions today as they have in the past.

JMHO&PO,
UT

 

[UAL_TECH]

More good news:

The ATSB has saved 'us' taxpayers a ton of money.
(in their Atypical government fashion, "Save a Penny - Loose a Pound")


Taxpayers face tab for airline pensions


UT

 

[mrfish3726]

They couldn't get the money from the ATSB, due to the lack of a sound business plan. SO, UAL is going to try to get the taxpayers to pay for this BK anyway they can. Even if it is at the expense of what remains of UniTED’S employees. Someone should be facing a congressional hearing on WHY???? UniTED has screwed over SO MANY dedicated employees. Why their irresponsibility during the GOOD times? Not putting money away for those pension plans? Why they managed to bilk 5.5 billion in ESOP dollars from their long-time, hard working employees? Why they stand on the verge of collapse due to the miss management of what was once the world’s premier airline?

 

[magsau]

Fish,

With all due respect I can not believe you and your misguided logic.

What about USAIR and the pension issue with them sending theirs to the PBGC? Are you not outraged? By the way UAL had the retirement money invested and guess what has happened to the stock market over the past couple of years? Yes, the markets have taken the balance and whittled it away.

This Govt. had a chance to do the right thing and thought otherwise. Now UAL is playing the hand it was delt and you are claiming it needs a Congressional Invsetigation? The only investigation needs to be in the issuance of the ATSB loans to FRNT, AMW and USA while leaving UAL, the airline that has the cost per employee down to levels below all the major carriers. The politics of the ATSB and the inside and backstabbing that YOUR airline took part in. You could not kill UAL with your underhanded deeds. TED is reaping market share from you in DEN and your company is retrenching from some overzealous expansion plans in LAX. So you decide that UAL is the root of all your problems. Well you can take that thought somewhere else. UAL and its employees will not be extorted by the likes of the LCC's for doing what we have to do get out of BK. If not for the LCC's continuing to lower the bar for wages and benefits this would not be an issue. Unfortunately there are too many people willing to play airline for wages that are lower than the previous iteration.

Perhaps you and FRNT should take a close look at UAL as BK may be a future possibility for you guys. Of course with no pension, I suppose that will mean the govt bailout in the form of the ATSB loan was enough of a govt. welfare check for now.

By the way, where was your outrage when Bethleham Steel turned its pensions over to the PBGC?

 

[Dizel8]

"If not for the LCC's continuing to lower the bar for wages and benefits this would not be an issue."

Umm, yeahh, sure, sort off, maybe, not.............

The reason UAL is in trouble is because of management blunders, silly investments, dumb decisions etc.

But, if it makes you feel better by blaming all the problems at UAL on the LCC's, by all means, go ahead, stick your head in the sand!

 

[mrfish3726]

Maqsau

If your defending what management did to UAL you go right ahead. There are plenty of folks out there on the street right now with 10+ years of seniority that would argue the ESOP point. There was no investment of ESOP dollars, not with the IAM share. It was all used to buy UAL stock and was never used as an investment in anything but worthless stock in the end.

Don't forget that Frontier has paid off their ATSB Loan several years in advance. And remember! The ATSB was formed to help distressed airlines that had a SOUND BUSINESS PLAN. Something that UAL has NEVER had! If they focused internally instead of externally to what others were doing they would have shown to the ATSB that they were fixing UAL from the inside out. Not painting planes, starting their own LCC TED (AKA United Shuttle), it’s still the same old United Air Lines new livery or not.

And you talk about wages, and how LCC's drive them down. You talking pilot wages that you guys keep trying to drive up to the CEO level. If your a pilot at UAL don't forget that one of the reason UAL went to BK so early was from the pilots summer of hell that made the company loose 400 MIL. Everyone wanted their share, pilots, techs, F/A's, and everyone else. Why not they went years without a decent raise. Everyone was working on their lions share of the billions UAL made over the ESOP time frame.

I hope UAL survives in some form; we need the competition here in Denver. It's been 10 years and UAL hasn't sent us to BK yet. As for LAX, if we can’t test the water then what’s the point in expansion? It’s not UAL taking the market share in LAX it’s a combination of the LCC’s that already operate there. We’ll find other markets to do our business in and continue to build a loyal and happy customer base. Check out and see as we add more Mexico service from airports that aren’t serving the DEN area, but DIRECT flights to the vacation destinations. And as we add more flights to Alaska, don’t forget that Frontier has authority from the DOT to fly to Hawaii also. We’ll just keep getting bigger and bigger.