Libya Coverup -- Who gets thrown under the bus? Hillary or Barack?

[delldude]

I am a strong believer in the fact that Freedom is not free. You have to pay for it every day. Were there universal service I would have served had they allowed me in so long as I fought beside a kid of a Congress person. I want to know that they have skin in the game as well. I consider it a obligation just as in Israel, Switzerland and a host of other countries with individual libery

Dude, that stuff went out when they went volunteer service......ala '73 or so.

 

[777 fixer]

Grown wise to playing the baited bullshit game..........

When I asked about Afghanistan you answered that question. Why is that not "baited bullshit"?

 

[777 fixer]

He was accused of dodging the draft which in itself is BS.

Funny too, according to your favorite source:

It was May 27, 1968, at the height of the Vietnam War. Bush was 12 days away from losing his student deferment from the draft at a time when Americans were dying in combat at the rate of 350 a week. The unit Bush wanted to join offered him the chance to fulfill his military commitment at a base in Texas. It was seen as an escape route from Vietnam by many men his age, and usually had a long waiting list.

 

[delldude]

Waiting list DMD, its all about what qualifications one brings to the table.
He enlisted......he served....get over it.
Your accusation of Bush being a draft dodger is BS.


Martin said four openings for pilots were available in the 147th in 1968, and that Bush got the last one.

 

[777 fixer]

Why do you always try and change the topic when cornered?

Bush wasn't eligible for the draft at the time is why he wasn't drafted and if he was elligible, there is no clear indication he would have been.

You neglected to point out that he was twelve days away from losing his student deferment when he joined.

 

[777 fixer]

Waiting list DMD, its all about what qualifications one brings to the table.
He enlisted......he served....get over it.
Your accusation of Bush being a draft dodger is BS.


Martin said four openings for pilots were available in the 147th in 1968, and that Bush got the last one.

Funny how someone who scored a 25% on the pilot aptitude test got the last spot.

Can you say DRAFT DODGER?

 

[Knotbuyinit]

Funny how someone who scored a 25% on the pilot aptitude test got the last spot.

Can you say DRAFT DODGER?

Draft Dodger? Brig. Gen. William Turnipseed, former head of the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group of the Alabama Air National Guard would disagree with your assessment.

The controversy over Bush’s service centers on what his critics call “the period in question,” that is, the time from May 1972 until May 1973. What is not mentioned as often is that that period was in fact Bush’s fifth year in the Guard, one that followed four years of often intense service.

Bush joined in May 1968. He went through six weeks of basic training — a full-time job — at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Tex. Then he underwent 53 weeks of flight training — again, full time — at Moody Air Force Base in Valdosta, Ga. Then he underwent 21 weeks of fighter interceptor training — full time — at Ellington Air Force Base in Houston. Counting other, shorter, postings in between, by the end of his training period Bush had served two years on active duty.

Certified to fly the F-102 fighter plane, Bush then began a period of frequent — usually weekly — flying. The F-102 was designed to shoot down other fighter planes, and the missions Bush flew were training flights, mostly over the Gulf of Mexico and often at night, in which pilots took turns being the predator and the prey.”If you’re going to practice how to shoot down another airplane, then you have to have another airplane up there to work on,” recalls retired Col. William Campenni, who flew with Bush in 1970 and 1971. “He’d be the target for the first half of the mission, and then we’d switch.”

During that period Bush’s superiors gave him consistently high ratings as a pilot. “Lt. Bush is an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer,” wrote one in a 1972 evaluation. Another evaluation, in 1971, called Bush “an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot” who “continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further.” And a third rating, in 1970, said Bush “clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot” and was also “a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership.”

All that flying involved quite a bit of work. “Being a pilot is more than just a monthly appearance,” says Bob Harmon, a former Guard pilot who was a member of Bush’s group in 1971 and 1972. “You cannot maintain your currency by doing just one drill a month. He was flying once or twice a week during that time, from May of 1971 until May of 1972.” While the work was certainly not as dangerous as fighting in the jungles of Vietnam, it wasn’t exactly safe, either. Harmon remembers a half-dozen Texas Air National Guard fliers who died in accidents over the years, in cluding one during the time Bush was flying. “This was not an endeavor without risk,” Harmon notes. . . .

The president’s critics have charged that he did not show up for service — was “AWOL” — in Alabama. Bush says he did serve, and his case is supported by records showing that he was paid and given retirement credit for days of service while he was known to be in Alabama. The records also show that Bush received a dental examination on January 6, 1973, at Dannelly Air National Guard base, home of the 187th (January 6 was one of the days that pay records show Bush receiving credit for service). And while a number of Guard members at the base say they do not remember seeing Bush among the roughly 900 men who served there during that time, another member, a retired lieutenant named John Calhoun, says he remembers seeing Bush at the base several times.

What seems most likely is that Bush was indeed at Dannelly, but there was not very much for a non-flying pilot to do. Flying fighter jets involves constant practice and training; Bush had to know when he left Texas that he would no longer be able to engage in either one very often, which meant that he would essentially leave flying, at least for some substantial period of time. In addition, the 187th could not accommodate another pilot, at least regularly. “He was not going to fly,” says Turnipseed. “We didn’t have enough airplanes or sorties to handle our own pilots, so we wouldn’t have done it for some guy passing through.”

On the other hand, showing up for drills was still meeting one’s responsibility to the Guard. And, as 1973 went along, the evidence suggests that Bush stepped up his work to make up for the time he had missed earlier. In April of that year, he received credit for two days; in May, he received credit for 14 days; in June, five days; and in July, 19 days. That was the last service Bush performed in the Guard. Later that year, he asked for and received permission to leave the Guard early so he could attend Harvard Business School. He was given an honorable discharge after serving five years, four months, and five days of his original six-year commitment.

Read the last three sentences in the article 777, I think that is where you are stuck on your draft dodger sentiment, totally no merit and very disengenious, to say the least.

http://old.nationalr...00402180840.asp

 

[xUT]

Funny how someone who scored a 25% on the pilot aptitude test got the last spot.

Can you say DRAFT DODGER?

whoserved
Vietnam Service in the United States Congress
(Combined House of Representatives and Senate)
Members with Vietnam service: 2.2%

Members without Vietnam service: 97.8%

Can you say 'draft dodgers'?

 

[delldude]

You neglected to point out that he was twelve days away from losing his student deferment when he joined.

12 days from losing his deferment.....and whats that supposed to infer?

You have no idea what living then was like do you.

 

[SparrowHawk]

12 days from losing his deferment.....and whats that supposed to infer?

You have no idea what living then was like do you.

I'm thinking you're right. Vietnam was veiwed as a one way trip. Fly over alive, return via Dover AFB

For many of us the question of "For who, For what?" has never been properly answered.

 

[delldude]

I'm thinking you're right. Vietnam was veiwed as a one way trip. Fly over alive, return via Dover AFB

For many of us the question of "For who, For what?" has never been properly answered.

I agree there 100%

All the accusations of draft dodging regarding Bush are pure BS.

And not everyone drafted ended up in Nam either.

 

[xUT]

I agree there 100%

All the accusations of draft dodging regarding Bush are pure BS.

And not everyone drafted ended up in Nam either.

I beat the draft by volunteering.
I got a safe job working on helicopters and they told me that I would go to Germany.
Well, that didn't quite work out... LOL
B) xUT

 

[delldude]

I beat the draft by volunteering.
I got a safe job working on helicopters and they told me that I would go to Germany.
Well, that didn't quite work out... LOL
B) xUT

Hmmm....seems you thought you were going to get drafted, and with that knowledge became a draft dodger by volunteering....that's where someones logic here is impaired.

 

[xUT]

Hmmm....seems you thought you were going to get drafted, and with that knowledge became a draft dodger by volunteering....that's where someones logic here is impaired.

Yep, beat the draft... LOL
B) xUT

 

[SparrowHawk]

I agree there 100%

All the accusations of draft dodging regarding Bush are pure BS.

And not everyone drafted ended up in Nam either.

True! My next door neighbor (Draft number 4) ended up manning one of those POS Vulcan Air Defense Guns, freezing his ass off in Okinawa.