Managers ARE going to F/A training

[Skymess]

I think you can do it again as long as AA doesn't hire replacements off the street like NWA did with mechs.

Not likely.Each FA training is individual to each airline because of the way the cabins are configured, what commands are used, and what type of doors are featured on the airplanes that specific airline ordered.

This is from the APFA:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How long to train replacement workers?
In 1993 it took 11 days
That was pre 9/11. Now they need fingerprints and background checks
*If they found people to train replacement workers AND they ran the learning center for 24 hours a day 7 days a week it would take them 1 year to train 10,000 flight attendants on 1 aircraft type.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's a possibility they would be able to hire FAs furloughed from other airlines with fingerprints on file with the FAA but they would still have to train them. The amount of FAs AA needs can't be trained overnight.

I find it unlikely that replacement workers are part of AA's strategy because they would have already been hiring them. They just want to stall as long as possible because it keeps the money in their coffers and they want to see if they can get APFA to agree to a sub standard TA instead of actually having to pony up some money for a good one.

I do fee that the NMB will release us from talks if AA does not negotiate. The last session which took place last week marked the first time in 2 years that AA actually came off of their zero sum, or zero gain, stance and offered to give us something.

I do think that AA mistakenly believed that many flight attendants would vote NO to strike. From chatter they assumed that FAs were unhappy with the APFA and that we would fold in the face of a strike. I think the overwhelming YES vote was the reason they started actually negotiating last time around. I still hear some people on this board and a few others mistakenly believing that those who voted yes will differ vastly from those who will actually be willing to strike. I think it would be stupid for AA to gamble on that belief and they know it. That vote empowered us and unified us. The tough talk I hear at work from other flight attendants makes me proud. I think the company is going to start dealing. If they don't they are just stupid. As ineffective as I think our management team is I don't think they are stupid.

I predict the NMB will send us back to negotiations one more time and if AA still doesn't negotiate they will release us. Then I think we'll get a TA in the last hours of super mediation hours or days before a strike is scheduled. That's my personal prediction.

 

[Skymess]

Game on...

indeed

 

[AANOTOK]

Analyst says TWU would be released first.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/05/analyst-downplays-potential-fo.html


" According to our sources, before releasing the flight attendants to strike, the National Mediation Board (NMB) wants to see if American Airlines can get agreements from its four Transport Workers Union (TWU) groups and have the rank and file ratify the tentative agreements reached at three TWU groups.

If the TWU rank and file reject the tentative agreements, according to my sources, the NMB is likely to release the TWU first, then after those contracts are resolved, release the flight attendants. So we are many months away from the flight attendant negotiations being declared an impasse."

 

[lineguy43]

Not likely.Each FA training is individual to each airline because of the way the cabins are configured, what commands are used, and what type of doors are featured on the airplanes that specific airline ordered.

This is from the APFA:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How long to train replacement workers?
In 1993 it took 11 days
That was pre 9/11. Now they need fingerprints and background checks
*If they found people to train replacement workers AND they ran the learning center for 24 hours a day 7 days a week it would take them 1 year to train 10,000 flight attendants on 1 aircraft type.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well never say never..They can if they had the resolve to break your union like NW did with AMFA. ...NWA spent the better part of 2 yrs and 2 million dollars training replacements that in itself is unprecedented in the industry. But I agree this is probably not the case with the AA flt attendants...They are just dragging their feet and buying time.

 

[AANOTOK]

Analyst says TWU would be released first.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/05/analyst-downplays-potential-fo.html


" According to our sources, before releasing the flight attendants to strike, the National Mediation Board (NMB) wants to see if American Airlines can get agreements from its four Transport Workers Union (TWU) groups and have the rank and file ratify the tentative agreements reached at three TWU groups.

If the TWU rank and file reject the tentative agreements, according to my sources, the NMB is likely to release the TWU first, then after those contracts are resolved, release the flight attendants. So we are many months away from the flight attendant negotiations being declared an impasse."

Of course, who are those "sources".

 

[Duke787]

Not likely.Each FA training is individual to each airline because of the way the cabins are configured, what commands are used, and what type of doors are featured on the airplanes that specific airline ordered.

This is from the APFA:------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How long to train replacement workers?
In 1993 it took 11 days
That was pre 9/11. Now they need fingerprints and background checks
*If they found people to train replacement workers AND they ran the learning center for 24 hours a day 7 days a week it would take them 1 year to train 10,000 flight attendants on 1 aircraft type.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's a possibility they would be able to hire FAs furloughed from other airlines with fingerprints on file with the FAA but they would still have to train them. The amount of FAs AA needs can't be trained overnight.

I find it unlikely that replacement workers are part of AA's strategy because they would have already been hiring them. They just want to stall as long as possible because it keeps the money in their coffers and they want to see if they can get APFA to agree to a sub standard TA instead of actually having to pony up some money for a good one.

I do fee that the NMB will release us from talks if AA does not negotiate. The last session which took place last week marked the first time in 2 years that AA actually came off of their zero sum, or zero gain, stance and offered to give us something.

I do think that AA mistakenly believed that many flight attendants would vote NO to strike. From chatter they assumed that FAs were unhappy with the APFA and that we would fold in the face of a strike. I think the overwhelming YES vote was the reason they started actually negotiating last time around. I still hear some people on this board and a few others mistakenly believing that those who voted yes will differ vastly from those who will actually be willing to strike. I think it would be stupid for AA to gamble on that belief and they know it. That vote empowered us and unified us. The tough talk I hear at work from other flight attendants makes me proud. I think the company is going to start dealing. If they don't they are just stupid. As ineffective as I think our management team is I don't think they are stupid.

I predict the NMB will send us back to negotiations one more time and if AA still doesn't negotiate they will release us. Then I think we'll get a TA in the last hours of super mediation hours or days before a strike is scheduled. That's my personal prediction.

I agree with everything you wrote, except the that the amount of time it will take to replace the F/A's. The mechanics were replaced in 2005, and mechs have to go through 40 hours airframes and power plants, and 40 hours avionics training for each fleet type, not to mention all the other paperwork stuff and misc training that is FAA required, that's all after you have an A&P license. But I agree with you the APFA and TWU will get a acceptable TA on the second try.



“Call me old-fashioned,” he added. “But I think companies ought to pay people back. And I think companies ought to make good on commitments to employees and communities.”

Arpey 2006

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/business/yourmoney/23arpey.html?_r=1

 

[Skymess]

This was, apparently, the memo sent to management. According to it the training would take 17 days.

Flight Service Seeking Volunteers for Contingency Plan Fly – How You Can Help

In anticipation of any potential job action which may be taken by the Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA) (i.e., if flight attendants were to obtain a lawful right to strike at some point in the future), we have created a contingency plan for staffing flights if a job action should occur. To assist with necessary flying, we are looking for management volunteers in the DFW area who are willing to go through flight attendant training to temporarily staff flight operations during any future flight attendant job action.

How you can help:

Currently Flight Attendant Qualified
· If you are currently flight attendant qualified – we need your assistance as an instructor at training. Please discuss the opportunity with your manager and watch for upcoming details.

o Training classes will be completed at FSU and Flight Academy and will last 17 days
Currently Not Flight Attendant Qualified

· If you are in the DFW area, not currently flight attendant qualified, and would like to volunteer to be trained to fly, please go to the Career section on Jetnet to submit a resume and initiate the medical/background check. Participants will be contacted with more information once the background/medical checks are complete.

· Requirements of flying include (full list of essential job functions found here):
- Must be in good standing for both performance and attendance
- Must fulfill regulatory criminal background and fingerprint checks
- Valid passport is required

· Participants should be aware that by participating:

o You will be required to clear a medical/background check
o Your salary will not be impacted due to participation (unless companywide adjustments are implemented)
o You may be deployed to a city other than DFW for a number of day at a time
o Expenses (food/hotel) while working on behalf of American Airlines will be covered by the existing Corporate Reimbursement policy
o Participants may be scheduled to FAA On Duty and Rest Break limits which means that you could be scheduled to fly more than six (6) consecutive days
o Flights may be staffed with FAA minimum crew (less than today’s staffing levels)
o You may encounter challenging interactions with other crewmembers
o Flying may consist of both domestic and international trips
o Participants should understand that the position is demanding and at times unpredictable, flexibility and patience are a must
o VC plans may have to be deferred
o Once you have completed flight attendant training, you will be utilized for the duration of job action that is occurring (in the past, job actions have occurred on an average from one day to two weeks)
Our current plan is to utilize resources in the DFW area to lessen the drain on resources in the operation. While we hope it isn’t necessary to staff flights with these volunteers, we feel it’s imperative to be ready should a job action occur to ensure the least impact to our customers and the operation. We remain hopeful that a contract is imminent, but appreciate your support as we prepare ourselves for any job action that may ensue in the coming weeks should an agreement not be reached.

Meanwhile, it is important to keep in mind that no job action is imminent. In fact, in order for the APFA to lawfully conduct a future job action, two things would first have to happen. First, the NMB would need to release the parties into a 30-day cooling-off (status quo) period; and second, that 30-day period would have to be completed and run out -- and the “self-help” period would need to begin -- without the parties first having reached agreement on a new contract. Only at that point could there be a lawful job action. But just in case that might happen in the future, we’re starting to prepare for it now.

A second eFlash will be issued later today containing “elevator speech” talking points for your discussions with flight attendants.

FYI to the company there ARE NO talking points with flight attendants. (Deleted by moderator: vulgarity)

 

[Thomas Paine]

I agree with everything you wrote, except the that the amount of time it will take to replace the F/A's. The mechanics were replaced in 2005, and mechs have to go through 40 hours airframes and power plants, and 40 hours avionics training for each fleet type, not to mention all the other paperwork stuff and misc training that is FAA required, that's all after you have an A&P license. But I agree with you the APFA and TWU will get a acceptable TA on the second try.



“Call me old-fashioned,” he added. “But I think companies ought to pay people back. And I think companies ought to make good on commitments to employees and communities.”

Arpey 2006

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/business/yourmoney/23arpey.html?_r=1

See Lineguy's post for the mechanics. It took NWA two years to get their scab force ready, AA hasnt done that, besides even with 10% unemployment what makes you think that job is that desirable? This aint 1980, its not 1990, its not 2000, its 2010 and they make half of what they used to make.

I dont know what NWA's training requirements were, but it sounds to me like you are talking about AAs training here.
The FAA requires that you have a program, they arent that specific as to how its set up.

After reading the last post by Skymess it appears that its more of a stunt than an actaul contingency plan.

 

[nbmcg01]

See Lineguy's post for the mechanics. It took NWA two years to get their scab force ready, AA hasnt done that, besides even with 10% unemployment what makes you think that job is that desirable? This aint 1980, its not 1990, its not 2000, its 2010 and they make half of what they used to make.

I dont know what NWA's training requirements were, but it sounds to me like you are talking about AAs training here.
The FAA requires that you have a program, they arent that specific as to how its set up.

After reading the last post by Skymess it appears that its more of a stunt than an actaul contingency plan.

There are an awful lot of finger prints in AAs data base. All they have to do is run them to update.

Restore and more?
Sustain and maintain?
Zero sum?


If the math is as accurate as the RPAs, this will be a major concessionary contract. Yes, the APFA can call for self help, (after release and 30 day count down) but AA can also implement what is on the table when self help begins. And, what are the chances of AA announcing a BA style threat of loss of all travel benefits?

Wow, I feel sorry for all of you.

 

[Skymess]

There are an awful lot of finger prints in AAs data base. All they have to do is run them to update.

Restore and more?
Sustain and maintain?
Zero sum?


If the math is as accurate as the RPAs, this will be a major concessionary contract. Yes, the APFA can call for self help, (after release and 30 day count down) but AA can also implement what is on the table when self help begins. And, what are the chances of AA announcing a BA style threat of loss of all travel benefits?

Wow, I feel sorry for all of you.

I'M sorry to burst your bubble Nancy but we aren't going anywhere. We may not get all of our money back but we're not going to take a concessionary package and we aren't going to be replaced or have our passes taken away. It would be stupid to take passes away from a work group that has such a high percentage of commuters.

 

[eolesen]

I think it's an unlikely possibility for AA to permanently revoke flight privileges the way BA did with Unite, but remember that FA's choose to commute as a lifestyle choice.

I confirmed today with a couple friends at CP5 that it's indeed an open call to anyone in management...

 

[TWU informer]

I confirmed today with a couple friends at CP5 that it's indeed an open call to anyone in management...

Those "friends" you have sure are always conveniently around for your confirmations.

 

[Duke787]

I'M sorry to burst your bubble Nancy but we aren't going anywhere. We may not get all of our money back but we're not going to take a concessionary package and we aren't going to be replaced or have our passes taken away. It would be stupid to take passes away from a work group that has such a high percentage of commuters.

It might be stupid to take F/A passes away, but it would be good way to thin out the bloated F/A ranks and get younger less expensive workers in.

 

[Duke787]

See Lineguy's post for the mechanics. It took NWA two years to get their scab force ready, AA hasnt done that, besides even with 10% unemployment what makes you think that job is that desirable? This aint 1980, its not 1990, its not 2000, its 2010 and they make half of what they used to make.

I dont know what NWA's training requirements were, but it sounds to me like you are talking about AAs training here.
The FAA requires that you have a program, they arent that specific as to how its set up.

After reading the last post by Skymess it appears that its more of a stunt than an actaul contingency plan.

II can't imagine that AA is giving more training then the minimum requirement and would think all airlines have the same training requirement.

What makes me think that the F/A job is desirable, is the fact that our F/A's are highly educated work force, and they are not leaving AA to work their field that they went to school for, also the ones that are working outside AA do not cut their ties at AA, either for benefits, security what have you. Others work here to get away from home for a couple of days. Look how senior the work force is, if it was such a horrible job they would quit.

I too believe it is a stunt having management go through training, if they were serious they would hire and train from off the street to get the number's they'll need. And if you're in management and you can be spared to go be a F/A, you're probably not critical to AA's operation, and could be let go.

 

[eolesen]

Those "friends" you have sure are always conveniently around for your confirmations.

Having an iPhone, it's not too hard to stay in touch with people via email, texting, or phone.... But today it was old fashioned face to face. Had a meeting in Texas which ended early, so I stopped by HDQ to say hi to a few friends.

Incidentally, not a single one said they were interested. Two of them were around for 1993, and are saying thanks but no thanks. I'm sure you'll find a few who do it for the ability to jumpseat as a nonrev, but a lot of the folks in L2-5 are pretty fed up as well. It's a totally different situation from 1993, when most management employees were willing to go the extra mile and take one for the company. Not so much anymore.