kirkpatrick
Veteran
That's not written in stone. In 2003, right after the massive furlough in July, the company recalled 390 to report on Dec 2 while leaving over 1200 people on OVL's.
MK
Managers ARE going to F/A training
- Thread starter BonTemps
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MK
kirkpatrick
Veteran
A litle clarification is needed here. First, the union must agree to go back to work under the company's new terms. The company can only impose those terms on the table at the time the cooling off period ended. In 1986 Icahn imposed some things, such as Service Managers (pursers) bidding with language and rotating reserve. IFFA (The FA union) took them to court and quickly won, forcing a return to the original company proposals.
Once the union surrenders, all jobs belong to the strikers in seniority order. In 1986 Icahn kept 463 FA's who were in training but not on the line yet. The union won that case and all the appeals. The Supreme Court didn't actually hear the case, but by reviewing it and deciding not to hear it let the lower court rulings stand. The 463 had to be terminated and were offered rehire in 1989, but had to start all over with seniority and pay.
MK
jersey777
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Gosh. What a mess! Mr. Arpey is no Carl Icahn. In my own humble opinion, it will not come to this.
See MacKay Radio & Telegraph Co. v. NLRB, 304 U.S. 333 (1938), and TWA vs. Flight Attendants, 489 U.S. 426 (1989), for an explanation of the rights of returning strikers.
Never say never. There are former TWA labor relations members of the negotiating team.
Since she already WORKS for American and is IN management at whatever level she's not and can't Be a SCAB..
The CS managers at other companies have been asked to work in possible union vacated positions in the cabin on many occasions.
I've never actually HAD to do so, but I had to keep up my CAT3 and Run and Taxi qualifications while a maintenence supervisor. Just for that very reason. I've never HAD to use them but I could have if "push ever came to shove".
Like it or NOT, If the company said DO IT to a Supervisor or manager?? You Do IT! That comes with the territory..
You took the Bread?? You ride for the Brand.. Plain and Simple.. That'sWHY Supervisors get paid a PREMIUM over their Union Counterparts.
Not completely. At one point we were locked out, our seniority gone, OZ acquired and that is another story. After the decision, our seniority was intact, we were not replaced. The 463 were removed from service, and life went on. The ruling just affirmed what we all know. 1,. the union has a right to strike 2, employees have the right to honor the strike or not 3, the Company has the right to self help also in the form of implementing whatever they choose that is still on the table at the time of self help 4, the working f/as will have to abide by the unilaterally implemented CBA 5. there can/will be permanent replacements 5, the company can hold out those on strike as long as they see fit 6, when "recalled" the FTS will go to whatever base is open at the time with their bidding seniority intact. Both sides will address any and all issues through the Courts with attempted injunctions et al.
Thats why since you are posting under an alias you should support and hope the Union folks get whatever they are askling for, if their pay goes up, so will yours!
In adjusted terms you are making much less than your predecessor did, unles of course you're Arpey or part of the gang on the 6th floor.
jimntx
Veteran
IIRC, the reason that PATCO members were so easily replaced is that there were thousands of trained air traffic controllers in the military. They filled in (under orders, of course) until replacements could be trained. Also, let's not forget that in the case of the PATCO strike, the strikers were violating a Federal law which prohibited Federal employees from striking, and Reagan gave them two chances to return to work before they were fired.
I lived on the edge of IAH in those days and knew several of the controllers who struck. They could not believe that the public did not rise up and support them in their demands. However, that was 1981. The controller I knew best was making $35,000/yr--a very nice salary for those days. Even his mother would say he barely got out of high school, but AFAIK, he was a good controller.
Under their work rules at the time they struck, they had to be on-duty (at work) 8 hours/day, 5 days/week. But, they were only actually working at the control screens 4 hours/day. The other 4 hours they were on break. I don't know whether it was their contract or just the standard working conditions, but they would work one hour on the screens, then break for an hour, then work an hour on the screens.
Among other things they were demanding a 32-hour work week (in the 1 hour on, 1 hour off mode). Most of us poor schlubs were working at least 40 hours week for considerably less than $35,000/yr. There was not a giant upwelling of public support for the strikers. And, of course, let's not forget that the strike did cause some flight cancellations, etc. and when you inconvenience the American traveling public in any way, you've lost them.
I lived on the edge of IAH in those days and knew several of the controllers who struck. They could not believe that the public did not rise up and support them in their demands. However, that was 1981. The controller I knew best was making $35,000/yr--a very nice salary for those days. Even his mother would say he barely got out of high school, but AFAIK, he was a good controller.
Under their work rules at the time they struck, they had to be on-duty (at work) 8 hours/day, 5 days/week. But, they were only actually working at the control screens 4 hours/day. The other 4 hours they were on break. I don't know whether it was their contract or just the standard working conditions, but they would work one hour on the screens, then break for an hour, then work an hour on the screens.
Among other things they were demanding a 32-hour work week (in the 1 hour on, 1 hour off mode). Most of us poor schlubs were working at least 40 hours week for considerably less than $35,000/yr. There was not a giant upwelling of public support for the strikers. And, of course, let's not forget that the strike did cause some flight cancellations, etc. and when you inconvenience the American traveling public in any way, you've lost them.
kirkpatrick
Veteran
This is a different case from what is being discussed. The courts ruled that junior replacements and crossovers cannot be removed and replaced with senior strikers. The 463 case and the case where the company implemented work rules that were not on the table when the strike began went in favor of the union.
In another case the company froze seniority of the strikers, so that if I was a month senior to someone who crossed that person was now senior to me in bidding seniority because of working during the strike. That one was quickly decided in favor of the union and the seniority list was put back like it should have been.
MK
floatingon9
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It's going to fun if/when they do their work trips and IOE's. Do you think any of us will help or work with them on the carts? Not I said the fly!
I suspect that there are thousands of ex- FA's out there who could be brought up to speed in days. Plus if you advertised in all hub cities for FAs to train on their own time as potential FA's for a strike. I bet you would get huge turnouts of those who would train on their own nickel. The company could probably assemble & train 10,000 certified FA;s in the 30 day cooling off period.
I suspect the public would not rise up in support of strikers, but in fact would rise up in support of the replacement workers who are keeping their holiday travel plans going....
