Managers ARE going to F/A training

[700UW]

I seriously doubt the FAA would approve AA wanna be FAs trained somewhere else and not on AA's equipment and the FAA would have to ceritfy the training program and facilities.

And WN doenst fly widebodies nor international flights, now do they?

 

[ReadyNow]

First of all, they could only impose rules that were in their final offer and no where has AA proposed a 114 hr month. Try up to 95. As far as 114 hr rule for Southwest, I would love to see a WN bid sheet. If they were to schedule their flight attendants that much then they would be working almost 20 days per month which I am very skeptical. The fact that you gather your information from AA negotiations is only giving you one side of the picture. We at AA are able to fly as many hours in a month or as little as we want. Several flight attendants fly way more then 114 hours because all you have to have is ten 24 hour rests at your home base. I think all this conjecture about replacements is way overblown because in my opinion the company and union are not that far apart. We WILL be scheduled to fly more hours per month. The only question is how many. My guess is that the difference will be split between 77 and 95.

do you have a link to a site that gives the afpa view of AA productivity vs WN?

 

[FA Mikey]

Try up to 95. As far as 114 hr rule for Southwest, I would love to see a WN bid sheet. If they were to schedule their flight attendants that much then they would be working almost 20 days per month which I am very skeptical.

Their trips, hours, and days are not calculated like the other scheduled carriers. Its an apple and oranges kind of thing.

 

[ReadyNow]

Their trips, hours, and days are not calculated like the other scheduled carriers. Its an apple and oranges kind of thing.

I would love to see a decoder ring so I could make an apples to apples comparison. Otherwise, I have to rely on the AA negotiations website.

 

[FWAAA]

I would love to see a decoder ring so I could make an apples to apples comparison. Otherwise, I have to rely on the AA negotiations website.

AA's competition isn't really Southwest; Instead, it's Delta, United (including CO) and to a lesser extent, US. Delta can schedule its FAs to 100 hours a month (including the premerger NW FAs) and I'm willing to bet that the average DL/NW FA flies more than 59 hours a month (AA's claimed average AA FA block hours).

It's no secret that AA wants to get more flying out of the FAs each month. The days of full-time pay and benefits for what's essentially part-time work may be numbered.

 

[jersey777]

I would love to see a decoder ring so I could make an apples to apples comparison. Otherwise, I have to rely on the AA negotiations website.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3F_Je3xRa4


This is the first of three videos disputing AA's cost estimates for flight attendants. You can find the other two on Youtube.

For the most part, the APFA has not publicly discussed specific issues. We as members still do not know exactly what the APFA is asking for in regards to pay, sick,vacation, and work rules. We do know what has been mutually agreed upon as far as reserve and other small items. I just flew with a negotiator and he said this has been done purposely. So many variables change throughout the course of negotiation so that if you tell the membership one thing then you better stick to it. I get a kick out of posters who claim the union is asking for too much. I would love for you to provide that "inside information" because it would be interesting to see. Yes there has been a lot of rhetoric about restore and more and the company offering concessions but from the unions camp you will notice no specific proposals.


As far as scheduled hours go, it is more complicated then it appears. I have spoken to a Continental flight attendant and even though they are able to be scheduled up to 92.5 hours a month, there are all kinds of checks and balances. Only a certain percentage of trips can be scheduled this high. And those trips must be pure. That is what you are going to see at AA. I can see them saying that JFK-NRT will now be 4 trips a month vs. 3 so in the end you will be flying nearly 100 hrs a month but still be flying only 12 days. What I am hoping the union is looking to prevent are multi leg trip on domestic where you work your butt off with long duty days and several legs and end up working 18 days to get 95 hours. IF this is what they are doing at Delta then they can have it. Those fools haven't had their say since day one and maybe one day they will get a backbone and say that enough is enough. Hopefully that day will come sooner rather then later.

 

[boston]

What people don't seem to realize is regardless of block hrs less or more is your still on duty with pax, at the airport,going thru customs at leat 2 x per day,tsa ,back to a/c cabin checks boarding again. Int at AA we never stay on board unless we are in Central America and some nothern rim South American city's. Domestic almost always has a change of A/C if we are keep the the same plane we are thrilled. At SWA they fly legs and they equate differntly than hrs, they usually stay on board the A/C with PAX then board again and out they go in 20 min at AA it's over an hour and 1:20 min int, so you need to take that into account. My friend flew on SWA from JAX-LAS with mutible stops along the way it took 8hrs and the crew didn't get off nor did she for there was no time. Not long ago at SWA the captians were informed by management that they had to take the flight attendants meal orders/starbucks, collect their money and get of the plane and get it for them The Pilots have all ther paper work handed to them, I don't even know if they know how to , MX does does the walk round, I belive the only walk around SWA pilots do are the 1st and last of the day.

There is so much on this board about how AA is training all over the worls and it can be done in no time, We ,APFA , arent even concerend with that , for we have a ways to go in this process,

SWA is a differnt operation, and unless you are a flight crew member will you be able to see how long it can take to get hrs in, not all flying is MIA-GRU 2day day trip wortth a little over 16hrs, and it goes 35-40yrs sen, for the trip when it operates is often only Sat-Sun. SFO-JFK-SFO is worh 11hrs give or take a few min, it's 2 on 2 off and the line is usually worth 70hrs, try to put more hrs in those lines. There are very few turns on the west coast or east coasst for that matter.

A lot of this proximity of crew bases, and that is the domain of AA as is the trips and staffing levels.

 

[jersey777]

One other thing that I'm sure the APFA is considering is that at JFK most of our European flying is 3 on 3 off. This works perfect if you want to pick up another Europe trip on your days off. Now what will happen if they add another trip on the block and all of a sudden the schedule is 3 on 2 off. How would I find a 2 day trip to fit onto those days? Myself and others that fly high time would actually find it harder to pick up and fly the same amount of hours. So all of you armchair airline opinionators don't know anything about how even the smallest change can have a huge effect on our lives. Thank goodness for a Union that can address our real day issues!

 

[boston]

One other thing that I'm sure the APFA is considering is that at JFK most of our European flying is 3 on 3 off. This works perfect if you want to pick up another Europe trip on your days off. Now what will happen if they add another trip on the block and all of a sudden the schedule is 3 on 2 off. How would I find a 2 day trip to fit onto those days? Myself and others that fly high time would actually find it harder to pick up and fly the same amount of hours. So all of you armchair airline opinionators don't know anything about how even the smallest change can have a huge effect on our lives. Thank goodness for a Union that can address our real day issues!

So true, I fly high time as well, another thing is in Miai a lot of Europe flying isn't even a 24hr layover anyore, MIA-LHR 56/57 has just changed departure time out of MIA so the LO is just at 24hrs, so back to back trips can be scheduled so long.

jerssy777, you somed it up well, armchair flyers. Not just f/A's need to be taken into account in flying, but we do fly with those other people "pilots" and difffernt time zones, and countrys tell AA when they will fly...Armchair, yes indeed. AA would laugh at this, with how armchair flyers feel they can solve the problem. AA even rellis on APFA to identify and solve problems,

I thank APFA

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

This just shows that the FAs can would, but not kill. AA is clearly taking the strike threat seriously, and is going to be as prepared as it can be if that day should come. From where I'm sitting it looks like the APFA has a lot less leverage than it seems to think.

 

[boston]

This just shows that the FAs can would, but not kill. AA is clearly taking the strike threat seriously, and is going to be as prepared as it can be if that day should come. From where I'm sitting it looks like the APFA has a lot less leverage than it seems to think.

I wouldn't expect anything less rom AA, and if they wern't, I really start to wonder whats up. But I don't expect a whole lot of much from AA, untl the NMB decides to release us. I will call and see if AA is infact started training, magement employees,as of yet, but highly unlikely the post 9/11 curriculum as been a approved by the FAA. And I've yet hear of anyone going to EPT's to hear any romours, and the instuctors are line flight attendant's in good standing with APFA, last time most resigned from EPT's and went back to full time on the line and they stuck.

 

[GoodDay]

This is the typical posturing by the company.

Doesn't this also prove that we are way overstaffed in the management ranks? If these people can so easily go down for 17 days of training, then how are their jobs getting done?

 

[eolesen]

It doesn't prove anything more than management having the ability to change priorities and defer some work for the duration of the training. When management went thru training in 1993, they were expected to keep up with their "day job" work after training was done for the day.

 

[Duke787]

The company could go for broke - start massive training and offer the new hires the WN wages and work rules.... or maybe the B6 wages and work rules....

Imagine if AA offered the same cabin experience as WN or B6

First TWA trained FA's then sent them home for when the strike happened, AA has more money then TWA ever did. Second, experiance for a FA isn't relative, the F100's had the most junior FA's, and you did this job in your early 20's, why can't they.

 

[Duke787]

What APFA staffing rules? Do you know what you are talking about or are you just throwing stuff out there?

Ya Bob, he does. We operate 767's with 9 FA's, USAir operates 767's with 5, if our staffing goes below 9 FA's get min staffing pay.