Mechanics turn down the concessions.

sastal

Member
Sep 2, 2002
84
0
[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][SPAN class=bodyfont][SPAN style=FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma][FONT color=#000000]On 11/29/2002 7:29:24 AM sastal wrote: [/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][SPAN style=FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma][BR][BR][FONT color=#000000][SPAN class=bodyfont]One day, an A320 pilot compared his level of preparation and expertise as an aviator to that of a Doctor of Philosophy -- one of the most idiotic things I had ever heard! The man obviously has no understanding of the title, and needs, among other things, an introduction to the amount of research involved in earning such a prestigious degree.[/SPAN][BR][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]MANCITYFAN[/SPAN][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]Nah, I think you are missing the point! It is not always about the intelligence or depth of research, but sometimes it is about the TIME. The length of time it takes to become a major airline Captain is FAR greater than that to receive a Ph.D. Believe me, I know! Having done much of the work towards and contemplated the latter, and already accomplished the former, I know which is harder, and which has the economic payoff (or did!).[/SPAN][BR][BR][STRONG]You are comparing becoming a captain, not becoming a pilot, to becoming a Doctor of Philosophy. Just like the captain I mentioned did, you are comparing apples to oranges. By flying your plane across the Atlantic or Pacific, you are not contributing to the body of knowledge in your field, much less to the canon of commercial aviation (figuratively speaking). If you want to compare a PhD to a captain with your absurd argument, then I should note that you have left out a small detail around which the life of every professor revolves. It is called tenure, and at times one can wait for more than a decade to obtain it, if at all. Which is harder? Intellectually speaking, the Doctorate, naturally. It is uncanny how pilots in the majors all sound the same, especially when it comes to stressing economic payoff. [/STRONG][/FONT][BR][BR][FONT color=#000000][SPAN class=bodyfont]SASTAL[/SPAN][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]Nonetheless, a college degree has no bearing on a pilot's salary and it is not even a requirement to become a pilot, although it is preferred. Everyone has a B.A. or B.S. today; it is a necessity if one wants a decent-paying job.[/SPAN][BR][BR][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]MANCITYFAN[/SPAN][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]Once again, you missed the mark. A college degree DOES have a bearing on a pilots salary, as no college degree means no major airline job, which means a commuter job or other, which is usually much less lucrative over time. ANd, while the FAA does not require a degree, the airlines usually DO, especially in the tight markets we will face for the foreseeable future.[/SPAN][BR][BR][STRONG]So the degree has a bearing on a pilot's salary --great. However, read my text: I did not say that a college degree is not a requirement to become a major-airline pilot. Clearly, you missed the mark.[/STRONG][/FONT][BR][BR][FONT color=#000000][SPAN class=bodyfont]SASTAL[/SPAN][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]The reason why pilots in the U.S. are paid so much is that they have a very strong union that literally shuts airlines down if it does not get what it wants (e.g. Contract 2000). There are pilots in other countries who are just as skilled in flying Boeing aircraft, and they are paid one third of what American pilots are paid. And if these pilots decided to shut down a company's operation, management would simply turn around and hire people from other nations (e.g. Alitalia with Varig and Quantas in 1993).[/SPAN][BR][BR][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]MANCITYFAN[/SPAN][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]Replace pilot with ANY job in this country and the paragraph is the same! What's the point? The standard of living of pilots is FALLING. Has been for over a decade now. Even the pilot hating WSJ agrees! People live in other parts of the world on $100 per month. Would THAT suffice?![/SPAN][BR][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]However, as usual, you have taken your warped sense of reality just a hair too far. If you think that ALPA National (or the laws of the US!) will EVER allow an airline like UAL to fire all the pilots and replace them with low priced foreign nationals, then you have been reading too many comics![/SPAN][BR][BR][STRONG]My statement refers to foreign pilots, not American ones, and foreign airlines, not U.S. ones. Where in my text do you read that my scenario applies to United or any other American airline? Have I mentioned ALPA? U.S. laws? I am beginning to worry about your reading-comprehension skills.[/STRONG][/FONT][BR][BR][BR][FONT color=#000000][SPAN class=bodyfont]SASTAL[/SPAN][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]Please don't give me the whole we have responsibility excuse. Certainly, a pilot's job entails that, but it does not warrant the kind of remuneration pilots enjoy. U.S. pilots should consider themselves very lucky and overpaid for the work that they do and for the amount of time that they work.[/SPAN][BR][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]MANCITYFAN[/SPAN][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]Ooops, did I miss where contracts and standards of living are now determined by the Grand Poobah Of Sastal? Lucky, overpaid, underworked. I think you covered the Holy Trinity of Pilot Bashing...well done! Do you have anything remotely intelligent or original to say or are we back to the old diatribes? [/SPAN][BR][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]How much do you pay for a cab ride from JFK to LGA? $28, I think it is! How much do you tip the cabbie? $3? $4?[/SPAN][BR][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]How much do you pay the Captain of a 737 to fly you from ORD to LGA? $100? $75? $50? $25? $10? $5? Try $4.33 INCLUDING benefits, retirement, health insurance and all those other industry-crippling costs. Perhaps you would prefer the rate for a 350 seat 747 to HKG? $16.41 per passenger for a 16 hour flight, about A BUCK AN HOUR! Oh, CRIPPLING the airline industry those salaries are![/SPAN][BR][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]The FACTS are not quite so easy to dismiss, especially when you realize you paid more for the Starbucks and the newspaper before you got on the flight than you did for that overpaid, fatcat of a Captain to fly you from ORD to LGA this morning![/SPAN][BR][BR][STRONG]Funny, and I mean it. What is this, though? Mancroeconomics?[/STRONG][/FONT][BR][BR][BR][FONT color=#000000][SPAN class=bodyfont]SASTAL[/SPAN][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]With that said, I think the mechanics really screwed this one up. I better start saving United paraphernalia for nostalgia's sake. [/SPAN][BR][BR][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]MANCITYFAN[/SPAN][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]Oh yeah, I forgot this was all about the mechanics and how they basically voted to bankrupt the company. What was all that stuff about the pilots again? $2.2BILLION of the $5.3 Billion in concessions? 20% cuts in pay and retirement? Giving up another 600 jobs? Agreeing to park another sh!tload of airplanes? Giving up ALL contract grievances filed based on Contract2000 abrogations? Giving up contractual pay protections? Giving up no furlough clause? Giving up scope clause and allowing UAX carriers to fly more RJs than were ever possible under C2K? Yeah, but what have they done for me LATELY?![/SPAN][BR][BR][STRONG]What I wrote is called a non sequitur. I suggest you look up the term in the lexicon. Mancity, keep doing what you do best, which is to fly airplanes. Don't play Alan Greenspan or captain of the debate team.[/STRONG][SPAN class=bodyfont] [/SPAN][BR][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]Over and Out![/SPAN][BR][BR][SPAN class=bodyfont]mancityfan[?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice /][o:p][/o:p][/SPAN][/FONT][/SPAN][BR][BR][BR][BR][BR][BR][BR][BR][BR]
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[P class=MsoNormal style=MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt][SPAN class=bodyfont][SPAN style=FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma][FONT color=#000000]sastal[/FONT][/SPAN][/SPAN][o:p][/o:p][/P]
 

synchronicity

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Nov 27, 2002
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I won't address most of your post, Bob, because there is no way I can convince you that the BK attorneys I have talked to, who are not trying to sell me on a position but rather are giving me their honest appraisal of the situation, think your assertions are flat out wrong. Not well, that's an argument, but I don't think it's a strong one, but rather yeah, and some people believe the Earth is flat.

Anyway, however, looking at one factual point, you said:

----------------
On 12/2/2002 3:21:05 PM Bob Owens wrote:


----------------
On 11/30/2002 3:11:46 PM synchronicity wrote;

"I'd add that the concessions are being demanded from other parties as well as labor. UAL is looking for even more concessions (over 8 Billion over the next 5.5 years) from assorted lenders and vendors."

If labor makes up only 30% of the costs then how come they make up around 40% of the cost reductions? How many of the vendors and lendors have agreed to six years of concessions?
----------------

Where do you get labor makes up 30% of the costs.

In a slide presentation prepared by the AFA back in August, they estimate UAL's total labor costs as approximately 41% of total operating costs. Of the 14.1 Billion United is looking to save over the next 5.5 years, 5.8 Billion is to come from labor costs cuts. Amazingly enough, that's...you guessed it 41%. I have also seen numbers in this range (actually closer to 45% in a few articles) from other sources. So, if your factual representation is that labor shouldn't take 41% share of the cost cuts because their share of costs is only 30%, you are incorrect. And for better or worse, it is generally agreed that United has the highest labor costs in the industry.

But don't tell me, non-labor cuts should be higher because it's unfair for mechanics to take a pay cut because they worked for 8 years without a pay raise, and those other companies shouldn't make ungodly profits off of United. Although, if you think United willingly pays lots more than they have to for goods from other companies just so they can screw over their workers, then your perception of reality is so vastly skewed that I can't have any sort of meaningful debate with you.

-synchronicity
 

wts54

Senior
Sep 16, 2002
374
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www.usaviation.com
Dow Jones Business News
United Air's Fate in Bankruptcy Would Hinge on Labor
Thursday December 5, 6:24 pm ET
By Sonoko Setaishi


Dow Jones Newswires
NEW YORK -- With United Airlines parent UAL Corp. (NYSE:UAL - News) looking almost certain to file for bankruptcy-court protection within days, it's the employees of the world's second-largest carrier who hold the key to the company's successful emergence from Chapter 11.

The bankruptcy code has a provision that would allow United to ask the judge to abrogate existing labor contracts so it could impose terms on workers -- a step that would allow United to sharply reduce labor costs and trim losses.

However, given its historically poor labor relations and the blow that labor unrest could deal on the carrier, United likely would steer clear from such a drastic step, bankruptcy lawyers say.

What's more, bankruptcy law sets tough conditions for companies seeking a labor contract rejection, including the need to first hold negotiations in good faith and to prove that they are unable to reach agreement with unions under any circumstances.

As a result, the Chicago company likely would, at least initially, seek to negotiate steeper pay and benefit cuts in court than the ones the unions have agreed on, the lawyers say.

Because of the difficult labor relations, I would be surprised if, the first crack out of the bed, they were to file a motion asking to reject the existing labor contracts, said Bill Rochelle, a corporate finance and bankruptcy attorney with Fulbright & Jaworski, whose clients include United lessors and aircraft-financing parties.

However, burning through more than $7 million in cash a day, the company may need to ask its employees for at least some interim relief in their wage rates, Mr. Rochelle said.

The specter of the company rejecting the labor contracts in bankruptcy is way overblown, agreed Bill Brandt, president and chief executive of Development Specialists Inc., a Chicago-based corporate reorganization and bankruptcy firm.

A more likely scenario, Mr. Brandt said, is that a number of parties will seek to buy United out of Chapter 11 and that some of them will make the transaction contingent on the carrier achieving a certain degree of labor peace.

Such prospective buyers would seek to either negotiate concessions directly with the unions or acquire a heavy hand in management's negotiation with labor, said Mr. Brandt, who currently doesn't have any United stakeholders as clients but expects to get such work in the future.

The Air Transportation Stabilization Board on Wednesday rejected United Airlines' request for a $1.8 billion loan guarantee, which the company had hoped to use to get $2 billion in fresh funds and stave off a bankruptcy filing.

In statements late Wednesday, both United and the Air Line Pilots Association said the company and labor unions will evaluate the situation and determine what action to take next.

In preparation for a possible bankruptcy filing, UAL has been working to finalize $1.5 billion of debtor-in-possession financing, The Wall Street Journal has reported. The company has been negotiating with four lenders who would take a lead in the financing and would later seek participation from other lenders, according to the newspaper.

A United spokesman didn't return repeated phone calls Thursday. The ALPA said only that the group was in communication with management. A spokesman for the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, representing mechanics and ground workers, said it would be extremely difficult to craft a financial recovery plan outside of court. A spokeswoman for the United branch of the Association of Flight Attendants, AFL-CIO, couldn't immediately be reached for comment.

UAL shares tumbled $2.12, or 68%, to $1, Thursday on volume of 45 million, compared with average daily turnover of 4.1 million.

In denying United's request for aid, the government panel said the company's business plan was not financially sound. The board also said United's revenue projections were unreasonably optimistic and suggested that its planned cost cuts weren't sufficient.

The panel left open the possibility of reconsidering the carrier's application should it file for Chapter 11 and agree to make sweeping changes in its business plan.

In Chapter 11, the United workers' 55% ownership stake -- acquired through six years of retirement-benefit cuts in the 1990s and once hoped to open a new era of worker-management cooperation -- would be entirely wiped out.

The employee stock ownership plan likely would be terminated during the bankruptcy proceedings. UAL employees also hold three board seats. In Chapter 11, the workers would continue to receive paychecks.

As part of United's $5.2 billion in targeted labor savings over five and a half years, pilots have agreed to $2.2 billion in cost savings, while flight attendants have agreed to a $412 million giveback.

Mechanics were to vote on $700 million labor savings Thursday, but the vote was canceled in the wake of the panel's denial of United's request for aid.

In return for additional sacrifices, United employees may receive a stake in the carrier should the company successfully emerge from Chapter 11, said Mr. Rochelle, the bankruptcy lawyer. It's unclear, however, how the unions would react to such an offer after the 1994 stock ownership plan proved to be a big disappointment for many workers.

Some bankruptcy lawyers said United would strive not to alienate employees in Chapter 11 for fear of labor strife.

The ultimate weapon the labor has is still not taken away, said Brandt of Development Specialists. While the courts can reject the labor contracts, they cannot prevent the strike.

However, Joseph Smolinsky, a bankruptcy partner at law firm Chadbourne & Parke LLP in New York, said that it would be very difficult for employees to strike in Chapter 11.

Political implications and the bankruptcy code, which requires unions to negotiate in good faith with management, would likely keep employees from staging a work stoppage, said Mr. Smolinsky, who isn't aware of any Chadbourne clients who are United stakeholders.

One would hope that there is not debilitating labor strife when United goes into Chapter 11, because it could wreck the company just as it happened to Eastern Airlines, Mr. Rochelle said.
 

wts54

Senior
Sep 16, 2002
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www.usaviation.com
Because of the worst management from top to bottom.
Looked like they were going to to waltz one by the atsb
that failed.Upper management cant run Ual,and Im not saying I
could,but they definetley cant either.TILTON THE EXALTED
we are waiting on your word.
 

Trip Confirmed

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Dec 5, 2002
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The travel agents UA told to go to hell did it.

It took several years, but the goal was to bring down UA.

UA-NO WAY!

Bet you never even heard of it. It was an underworld-nationwide (worldwide?) campaign.

But it was made clear today that it was a success.

I do nothing other than book international clients, 8 hours a day. About 90% J class, 5% F, and 5% coach. I have, for 2-3 years now, made damned sure I NEVER put a fanny in a UA seat.

I was not alone, believe me.

Chapter 7 is the goal, not 11.

And I do feel for the innocent hardworking employees.

But UA decided they would never pay a cent to us again. They figured the internet would get their bookings, and talked to us like we were dogs when we called res.

Coupled with the constant griping of clients about UA inflight/ontime/counter/customer service???

Piece of cake.


Now on to our second target airline..

Sory UA. You deserve every bit of it.

TA's ticketed, a few years ago, 93% of the seats sold in this country.

We were told to go pound sand. We're still in the high 80 percentile range.

We give service in booking and follow up when there's a problem,, you don't. Most of your front line res agents, (the ones we have to speak to), have the IQ of a turnip, and a lot shorter attention span.

And yes, I'm experienced. 25 years worth.
Bye, UA.


9.gif']
 

Taipan

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
132
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Now on to our second target airline..

I bet Leo Mullin is shaking in his boots , cant sleep at night bud
 

wts54

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Sep 16, 2002
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Pilots, I don't like the in fighting, but some of the BS here needs answered.In the first place,I know several people here that have commericial tickets and I used their advice when two of my sons decided they wanted to be pilots. They both changed directions after obtaining their instrament ratings and both received most of their flight time via a flying club.Had they achieved this at a university such as SIU, it would have been as expensive as 4 years of medical school but certainly not eight. I have a nephew who became a doctor and a good medical school is much more expensive, so stop the BS about flying costing as much as medical school. Sure it could if your rich daddy bought you time in a 727 or equal which I know could be accomplished. You know as well as anyone that the military is the best place to accumulate hours but the other routes are there and very difficult,but none of that can even compare to an internship for a MD.
Now why should UAL AMT's cite your wages. Real simple, in the first place it was your group that pushed for the ESOP because after Ferris obtained his own commerical ticket, he realized you guys were only as good as your auto-pilot.To preserve the pilot status, your group hired a professional group headed by a famous scam artist who advised ALPA to buy the company. This isn't illegal because it is the same as owning a majority of the company and using its wealth for personal gain.So basicially I have nothing against it. What I do have against it was rather than your group using your individual incomes to control UAL, you used the small minds of the IAM to take the real hits all the while you moved up seats and your wallets got fatter. Then you made noises about having the most invested and heartlessly, illegally and immorally, screwed up the schedule so bad that big corporations who had revolving accounts with us canceled. They never came back. We are still losing money from them. Next when our turn came, we couldn't even get an editorial printed in the newspapers, the pilots wrote unprofessional whining letters that were printed, ours nothing and it was those in control of UAL that did this. Your group has power and could have contributed to this.We might never know but that just for starters.Now after 2 years of drug out negotitations and a contract that now allows outsourcing even in a layoff, your group won't even allow us credit for not receiveing backpay. Ask your ALPA, that was why we didn't join the so called coalition. ALPA was calling the shots for this. Next ALPA makes an offer that your group comes out way ahead in wages, that got shot down but one that is almost as bad is pushed through. Come on Mr.Pilot, no contract, unless it is an almost perfect one gets a 90% vote and I don't think any concession in unionized history ever got a concessionary deal approved by those numbers. Then we hear that your hard time hours are down to 40 average which means that your group is being protected against lay offs while our friends and working partners are being laid off. It was your higher wages that sent the older paid for planes that were paying the bills to the desert. Couldn't your group have restsrained itself and made some allowances to keep flying the shuttle and the short hauls? Now the average pilot wage is $250,000 and for every 1000 pilots being protected, it equates to $1,000,000 a day. If the number is 4000, $4,000,000. Get it??Now from the media standpoint, you again made it sound like it was our group causing the money problems. One of your less informed pilots wrote here that we can't be compared to SWA because they're low cost and do make less. Well news flash, their AMT's make the same wage that we do.

Also you try to influence people here with landing in a rain storm with cross winds etc.. Pal I've flown observer in such weather and as you well know the pilot is as much of a passenger as everyone else in CAT II days. We're now in CAT III days. Yes there is skill and yes I brag and admire our flight department or at least our past flight department. You deserve good wages but your wages are beyond good. I have a brother in law who has started four businesses. Mortgaged his life and worked 17 to 18 hours a day and worried, not just for himself but his workers welfare into having ulcers. He has flirted with six figures but never really made it there. Doctors and lawyers don't make that kind of money. Money has a value. You folks that made it into the majors are lucky because there are at least 20 turned away for every opening that comes along. So there should be a little extra for that scrutiny but not like a professional sports player, which is the only thing you could be compared. What we're in now is survival and so we all now go to market.So if you want to spead manure, I have a field near me. And pal, even in bankruptcy, you guys have power beyond ours. I didn't mind that in the AirForce when I'd pat our combat men on the helmet and say give em hell sir The only branch of service where he officers go to combat and the enlisted men stay back. When they come against you front liners, I'll still give you that support,just don't sing me Dixie.
 

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
14,274
6,112
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 7:57:31 PM wts54 wrote:

Because of the worst management from top to bottom.
Looked like they were going to to waltz one by the atsb
that failed.Upper management cant run Ual,and Im not saying I
could,but they definetley cant either."TILTON THE EXALTED"
we are waiting on your word.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Yes we will see if the Million$ that were dumped on Tilton were well spent.
 

wts54

Senior
Sep 16, 2002
374
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www.usaviation.com
Trip Confirmed,
What do you want the employees to do?
We dont make corporate policy.Should we storm
WHQ in the middle of the night with pitchforks
and machetes?? There isnt anything the average
employee could have done to help you.We arent
your enemy.
 

Trip Confirmed

Advanced
Dec 5, 2002
225
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[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/5/2002 11:19:35 PM UnitedChicago wrote:

TripConfirmed:

GO away you weasle. I don't use the word "idiot" on posts...but you deserve it.

You are an idiot.
----------------
[/blockquote]


Ok,

In your opinion, I'm an idiot. But UA will declare bankruptcy by Monday morning. And I'm one of the people who put, or did not put, passengers on your planes. At least 85 percent of those were booked by TRAVEL AGENTS.

HELLO---85%-ANYBODY HOME?

UA employees of your ilk have treated travel agents like idiots for some years now. And what did it get you?

Before one throws barbs, one should see where his bread is buttered.

We WERE your bread.Our job was to recommend the best carrier,then book and ticket those people. Your job was to get them to their destination comfortably and safely.

According to you , I'm a weasle and an idiot. You however, are intelligent ,wonderful, and all -knowing.

Your opinion is free speech. It's also the exact attitude I've heard every time I've called UA for some time.

You listened to your unions and masters, and told the ones who actually book and ticket almost all of your passengers to F off.

I'm not trying to be hateful. I remember years ago when we were actually partners. God, I miss those days, and the UA reps who were good friends too.

But Monday, you will employed by a bankrupt company.


I won't.

I really don't expect anyone on this site to give me a kind word, or acknowledge that I just might be right. But that's something I'm well used to.

I can assure you that it's American travel agents who brought you down.

And in my office, since Thursday, we can't give away UA seats,even if they are free.. The ONLY ones who want UA are rushing to cash in their FF miles.

My last booking before I went home last night was a party of 5 J businessmen... They were spooked and and I convinced them to fly AA through NRT .

5 Business RT seats you lost. Discounted corporate fares, but you still lost them.


It took me about 25 minutes to book and ticket them all.

Have you seen your J fares ORD-PEK? Someone else got those pax.

You may consider me an idiot. But I find it offensive, and my actions prove it.

If there is any kind word out there from a UA employee, I have a question.

Did any UA employee, anywhere , ever question the wisdom of dumping ( with a 24 hour notice)the biggest ticket sellers they had?

I don't hate UA employees. Many of you will be unemployed, with little chance of being hired by another carrier.Many may lose their homes. But it's what happened to thousands of us, and you surely didn't give a damn then.

Yesterday, a conversation started at lunch.

I mentioned I noticed a MAJOR attitude adjustment from only 2-3 days ago.

And a brand new recording THANKING us for booking UA.

A co-worker started laughing and said he wanted to scream into the phone that it wasn't his choice, just another rush FF mileage booking.

Your new attitude adjustment on the phone is not only way too late, but a major cause of hysterical laughter in the travel agent community.

I'd guess I'd have to say that the most frequent comment was arrogant bastards.


People, you have NO IDEA how badly UA treated us.

Can you actually blame us from booking away from UA at every chance?

I told you what happened. Hundreds of thousands of travel agents decided about 4 years ago to never book UA again, if there was any way not to.

The goal was, ...well you figure it out.

We could not legally boycott as a group, but there are other ways.


UA-NO WAY! was the rallying cry.

Call me an idiot again. I'm used to it.

But tonight when you hit the sack, give some thought to who the real idiots were.

I'll have to say, since posting here, my worst opinions of UA employees seem to be true. Not ONE person who looks at facts. Just name calling.

Really makes me want to sell another UA seat, huh?

Honestly guys, let me give you an example, I swear it's true.

6-8 months ago? I decided to keep a tally of people I booked away, ones who initially said UA..One day, from 7:30 AM till about 2PM, it was OVER $60,000.00.. One day, just till around 2PM.

I won't go on any further. You get my drift.

ONE DAY , guys and gals. It's the truth. I kept that tally for about 3 days, then threw it in the trash.

And I'm called the idiot here?

Think about my bookings
for years. That was 1/2 day, some were much slower, I've seen some nonstop.

Best wishes for all the UA employees who worked hard and tried.
 

Trip Confirmed

Advanced
Dec 5, 2002
225
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/7/2002 1:11:21 PM wts54 wrote:

Trip Confirmed,
What do you want the employees to do?
We dont make corporate policy.Should we storm
WHQ in the middle of the night with pitchforks
and machetes?? There isnt anything the average
employee could have done to help you.We arent
your enemy.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Bless your heart,

I can see your frustration. But actually a storming of the WHQ was exactly what could have made UA the strongest carrier in the world.

Not with weapons, of course, but with strength.

If UA had bucked the tide, and continued to pay travel agents, your biggest problem would have been trying to get extra-sections for sold out flights.

The employees, banded together, DO MAKE CORPORATE POLICY.

But that was yesterday.

And as for your last comment, thanks.

You truly sound like a UA employee who is not, nor ever meant to be, my enemy.

My best wishes for you, and yours. And I mean that.
 

UnitedChicago

Veteran
Aug 27, 2002
756
0
www.usaviation.com
TripConfirmed:

So your argument is that you and your travel agent buddies single handidly drove United into CH11. Get real.

So poor management, failed ESOP, failed business strategies (U merger, Avolar), rich pilot contrac, and 9/11 had no impact?

Just read the above a few more times and you may realize how stupid your argument is.

You know...you might try the Yahoo message boards as they may be more on your level in terms of intelligence.