Mesa lands in middle of T-Storm in CLT

[luvn737s]

Give these guys a break. It could have been the first time either of them had been in actual IMC. Everybody has to learn somewhere. Geesh, they didn't crash or nothin'. Does anyone really think building experience comes without some risk? Otherwise the experience is meaningless, right? Right? (only this type of underwear-soiling moment used to happen in Twin Beeches full of auto parts rather than with innocent passengers aboard)

I think the passengers understood the risk they were taking by getting on that flight. They knew the experience level of their crew and if they didn't, the fresh faced FO listening to his i-pod during the walk-around should have tipped them off.

On a more serious note, the tower's clearance to land or takeoff merely means that you aren't going to hit anyone by doing so. They will clear you to land or takeoff when weather is below minimums. It is the PIC's call on whether it is legal, safe and prudent to do so.

 

[NAPAUS]

This is the type of quality contract carrier we have feeding the USairways system! We are very fortunate that we were not reporting a misap this evening in Charlotte during that monster thunderstorm; when Mesa (Air shuttle) landed in the middle of driving rain, windshear and microburst alerts. The tower tried to convince them to go around with repeated windshear alerts, but no way, they continued and landed on runway 05. After landing the tower controller could not see them and asked them where they were and they responded that they could not even see the taxiway sing since the rain was so heavy. They also reported sliding after landing and braking action as poor. Sure they landed but the ramp remained closed for another 50 minutes. I do not understand the need to subject our passengers to this type of risk. I wish someone could get in this crews head and ask WHAT THE XXXX were you thinking?

Report it to the FAA immediately...they should both cpt and f/o be fired....remmber the DC9 incident many years.. Mesa is w ahite trash airline and should loose their operating certificate!!

 

[Dog Wonder]

I wish someone could get in this crews head and ask WHAT THE XXXX were you thinking?

Hey y'all watch THIS

 

[careerfurloughee]

Hey y'all watch THIS

Get'er done.

 

[flynomore]

Awh, dude.
Dude.
No way.
Shiiiiiii.......

 

[the turtle]

I hear a train a'comin, it's comin' round the bend...

 

[BoeingBoy]

Bob,

That's my understanding. Mesa pilots are paid for the scheduled block time only. Anything that extends the actual block time beyond schedule doesn't result in more pay, i.e. holding, deicing off the gate, diversion, etc.

Jim

 

[JS]

Isn't that also how Southwest flight crew is paid?

I'm not a big fan of Mesa either but I try to avoid accusing someone of making a mistake when I wasn't there and don't have the regulatory or industrial experience to issue a judgment.

But this is just an IBB, so fire away! They landed in sub-par weather conditions... off with their heads!!!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Isn't that also how Southwest flight crew is paid?

It's my understanding (which could be corrected if anyone knows definitely) that this is a common misunderstanding based on WN using different pay units - "trips" instead of hours. Becdause most people equate the words trip and flight, it's common to believe that WN pilots are paid by the number of trips (flights) when they're really paid by time measured in different units - "trips".

For example, US and WN flights scheduled for 1:50 block time would be scheduled to pay the US pilot 1:50 (duh!) and the WN pilot 2 "trips" (also 1:50). If both experienced holding, etc and actually took 2:45 gate to gate, the US pilot would be paid 2:45 (double duh!) while the WN pilot would be paid 3 "trips" (also 2:45).

Jim

 

[careerfurloughee]

Yikes Jim,


Now BEFORE I get flamed for comparing a pilot to a stone truck driver, I would think that the general level of professionalism of pilots would exceed those of a stone truck driver.

But this type of compensation creates the opportunity to take more and otherwise unneccasary risks.

There is a very good chance that the Stone Truck driver was making more money than the Mesa F/O if not the Captain also!

 

[Nebucanezzar]

I was there. Got down to min fuel and bugged off. Nobody, and I mean nobody should have attempted to land in a level five with tops at FL600. I don't care to make a judgement because I don't know all the facts or at what point (i.e. building, mature, dissipating) they landed but I am glad everyone is safe.

 

[jerseyfinn]

I was there. Got down to min fuel and bugged off. Nobody, and I mean nobody should have attempted to land in a level five with tops at FL600. I don't care to make a judgement because I don't know all the facts or at what point (i.e. building, mature, dissipating) they landed but I am glad everyone is safe.

Yes, second guessing does not always definitively resolve a question or issue. Neither does speculating about time-based risk taking. Still, it perks my ears up to hear others who were there express at least a doubt about the prescience of landing at that time.

As a pax, it's a bit disconcerting to hear the derisive comments about baby-faced pilots -- everyone starts somewhere. But the point about experience and judgement is well taken and that is what aviation is all about ( as an anesthetist I can relate to this situation, although we are only shepherding one pax/patient at a time ).

So does the company or the FAA or some agency undertake any sort of review or oversight in these sort of situations? Or are things like this kept in the family behind closed doors? I would hope that since a legitimate concern about decision-making exists here, that someone would undertake to review this and provide at least informal guidance to the Pampers pilot involved for future reference. Or doesn't dialogue exist between the different stratas of pilots at US?

Barry

 

[N924PS]

This has been going on for years at Mesa.

Several years ago we were on approach for CLt 18R when the tower issued a "microburst alert". Everyone bugged out for their respective holding fixes except for, you guessed it "Air Shuttle".

Many years ago ALPA had a "One Level of Safety" campaign designed to make sure the travelling public had the same level of safety whether riding on a mainline or express aircraft. Not sure if Mesa participated in that or not.

However, they have been dodging the bullet. So far they haven't had any major accidents with fatalities. The Air Midwest BE1900 in CLT was maintenance related and even an experienced flight crew would have met the same fate.

Mainline Severe Weather/Windshear criteria requires at least 3NM separation from severe weather below 1000 Feet Above Ground Level. It would be interesting to have ALPA safety look into this arrival and if nothing else ask the crew "we know what you did, but what were you thinking?"

 

[hp_fa]

Barry:

It's probably as effective as the public thinks about Peer Review.

 

[JS]

Well if it was YOUR loved one who perished at the hands of a Mesa Pilot who took an unneeded risk, you might feel differently.

There can be no excuse for putting safey in any other position but NUMBER 1!

A pay structure that allows/encourages the taking of risks, that puts the customer at additional risk which is unacceptable.

Oh give me a break with your if, if, if ...

I didn't have any loved ones on the flight in question, and furthermore, the plane didn't actually crash!

Why don't we question every successful landing? After all, there's always the possibility the pilot made a mistake even in perfect weather, and only by the grace of God did the passengers survive to live another day. The FAA will need to go on a massive hiring spree.