Mileage Upgrade Changes

[KCFlyer]

🙄 you really know very little about how this all works...

Yes I do...bottom line, you want first class for less than first class prices. What part of that is wrong?

 

[ksb]

Yes I do...bottom line, you want first class for less than first class prices. What part of that is wrong?

And US wants me to get my company to buy a US ticket even if they're not the low bidder for the service. What part of that is wrong?

Frequent flyer programs exist, in part, to move the purchase decision beyond just the price of transport from point A to point B. If price were the only factor, an airline like RyanAir would rule the world. But there's more to my purchasing choice than just price (although price does matter).

US gives me "free" upgrades and I buy their tickets (without them needing costly advertising to get that sale) even if they aren't the lowest price. Sadly, there's less to the upgrades than there used to be and the cost of getting those less-enticing upgrades is going up. Accordingly, a number of us who used to cajole and coerce our firms (and significant others) to go with US are looking for alternate companies that might want predictable business at very little effort.

In short, the upgrades aren't free and the frequent flyers are freeloaders -- both the supplier and consumer of a service are making informed decisions about value. But if you or the folks in Tempe think that upgrades are "free" to consumer and that FF are freeloaders, US should just be honest and open with the public that it wants to be the American RyanAir and save us all the time of guessing where they're going.

 

[US1YFARE]

Yes I do...bottom line, you want first class for less than first class prices. What part of that is wrong?

You think Art stopped flying US because he can get cheaper fares on AA and CO? :blink: :unsure: 🙄 Art is PAYING for FC on AA because US's product at the same cost SUCKS. I am booking FC on AA on an upcoming trip because US's product and reliability is in the toilet--vouchers for future travel no longer cut it. At this point, I think I could be a US1 if I wanted to on the vouchers they have given me.

 

[jimntx]

I doubt biz customers are actually paying for first class at all. Bravo if FC is actually sold out in advance.

Actually, a great many pay for F/C--at least at AA. I constantly heard from other f/as the mantra of "they're all upgrades." And, they are not. I fly #1 (F/C f/a) a lot. Most of my customers have paid to sit in the front. There are some upgrades, but not as many as I would have thought.

 

[vantheman63]

I doubt biz customers are actually paying for first class at all. Bravo if FC is actually sold out in advance.

Having read this entire thread and after having lurked here for some time, there are at least two things incredibly obvious to me.

First, it's absolutely clear that some of the good people here do not understand a high yield or loyal customer's mentality, decision process, wants or needs. I've known now for a while, US CLEARLY doesn't understand them, and I dare say, some of the fine people who post here and who make up the airline personnel also do not understand these customers.

Second, and I've known this for some time being a business owner and marketer of "high end" (read: "high yield") products that often times, "the foxes guarding the hen house" make the biggest mistake of all: They assume the rest of the world makes purchase decisions the way they do instead of understanding and accepting that many people "shop" in ways unimaginable to themselves.

I am a "high yield" customer. I do spend money on F-Class. "Status" on an airline is important to me, but not for the upgrades, I am one that actually pays my way and buys F-Class. And to make the mistake that I'm an "odd duck" and there aren't many like me is silly. First off, the majority of the traditional legacy/hub & spoke carriers SELL their front cabin. AA and UA for example, do have upgrades....but they are limited. CO and DL set their pricing around attracting high yield, loyal FFers by selling their F Cabin to customers who "yield" (read, pay) the highest prices for their seats on the airplane. As a result, it's not easy to get an upgrade on CO.....because the product is good enough that pax are willing the pay for it and not rely on upgrades.

I happen to be one of those pax.

I own my own business. I have a number of clients, customers and employees. For me, the F-Cabin is a refuge of sorts. A way and place for me to "get some work done in peace and quiet" without having to worry about phones, employees, etc. I'm not "there for the food." I'm there for a little bit of peace, quiet, tranquility and comfort. My time is worth $500 an hour and I can make a very sound economic case for not only paying $1,500 or $1,600 for a transcon F-Class seat, but that it's actually worth more to me than $1,600. (Do the math, 5 hours of flying X $500/hr = $2,500 each way.)

Anyone, including the rocket scientists that inhabit the halls of HQ in Tempe that doesn't believe or understand that is not watching the trends in other markets for various product.

While I'm not "there for the food," I do expect, for top dollar, to, at least, not be abused, taken for granted and/or otherwise "served up a case of slop." In other words, I value my time and I also value my hard earned income....and expect that it be respected and the product(s) I pay for deliver some value.

I've been "buying" F-Class since 2003 and I used to pay the money to fly US, transcon, PVD-SFO/LAX/SAN/SEA as well as TA flights. I flew Envoy when I would put it against ANY service "accross the pond."

I don't and would NEVER give my money to US for a premium product or service. I've been bumped to the back of the airplane after paying for the flight, twice. I've seen the most GAWD-AWFUL cabin conditions (filth, duct tape, etc.) and a deteriorating service since HP management took over. I've been so disgusted, I didn't want to tough IFE on TA flights.

The lead post in this thread was about the decreased value of FF miles. First off, to those people still collecting US FF miles and to those people who work for US..."what did you expect? Of course the FF miles are being devalued and losing value every day!"

Just like the Treasury can't print money and increase money supply randomly, because of the devaluing of the currency, US is ill advised to do so. The more miles there are in supply, the more US can and will need to continue raising the number of miles for an award.

And if the product's loyalty program is designed to reward "frequency," why would the poster demean that customer by suggesting "they didn't pay for it, they don't deserve it." Come to think of it, why would US take that approach?

US is at and has been at war with VFFs and High-Yield, High Revenue customers for at least 7 months now. Pretending they aren't is putting one's head in the sand.

It's too bad.

Fortunately for me, I got off the crazy train and moved to CO and UA.

 

[john john]

I am a "high yield" customer.

And maybe the dividend miles program needs to be revamp to allow high yield customers the perks versus low yield segments

 

[KCFlyer]

And maybe the dividend miles program needs to be revamp to allow high yield customers the perks versus low yield segments

When they tried that, there was an outcry from the cockroaches. They can call me a troll, they can call me an ####, but the creation of the cockroach club and its successors were a direct result on the airline trying to make changes to reward the truly 'high yield' customers. It wasn't limited to US...Delta tried the same thing and met the same outcry from their FF members. I have no problem with an airline rewarding truly high yield customers. But this outcry led me to conclude that since the changes geared to rewarding the high yield customers were met with such resistance, those complaining must have been impacted...which implies that they might have been frequent passengers - but if they were impacted, they were not "high yield".

 

[Art at ISP]

KC,

In addition to being a troll, you are quite wrong. The group started because they were going to PENALIZE those flying on discount fares, rather than reward those for flying on full fares. There is quite a difference, but what would you know about high yield, you are a proponent of the big brown bus?

Other airlines got it right (doesn't surprise me that these guys didn't). Even DL changed their program, although it took much longer. CO, DL, AA and others give full credit for most fares, although AA has a bucket of fares which get 50% eqps and CO has fares that give 50% points if not booked on their website. BUT they reward you with 150% credit for those full fare and premium class fares. The idea is to incentivize desired behavior, not punish those who need to save. What the original plan at US failed to conceptualize was it is preferable to keep a customer even if he has to seek out lower fares because overall he spends much more than an occasional customer. And in the end, his AVERAGE spend will prove to be profitable to the company.

I find it interesting that you are defending US, but you are used to supporting airlines who market to the lowest common denominator.

And it's none of your business how much F I paid for on US--much more than you I can be sure.

You are now free to crawl back into your cave.

 

[KCFlyer]

KC,

In addition to being a troll, you are quite wrong. The group started because they were going to PENALIZE those flying on discount fares, rather than reward those for flying on full fares. There is quite a difference, but what would you know about high yield, you are a proponent of the big brown bus?

Other airlines got it right (doesn't surprise me that these guys didn't). Even DL changed their program, although it took much longer. CO, DL, AA and others give full credit for most fares, although AA has a bucket of fares which get 50% eqps and CO has fares that give 50% points if not booked on their website. BUT they reward you with 150% credit for those full fare and premium class fares. The idea is to incentivize desired behavior, not punish those who need to save. What the original plan at US failed to conceptualize was it is preferable to keep a customer even if he has to seek out lower fares because overall he spends much more than an occasional customer. And in the end, his AVERAGE spend will prove to be profitable to the company.

I find it interesting that you are defending US, but you are used to supporting airlines who market to the lowest common denominator.

And it's none of your business how much F I paid for on US--much more than you I can be sure.

You are now free to crawl back into your cave.

Odd isn't it Art that your signature line says "it's the fares stupid"...yet the ONE airline that has recognized that for 30 years is "the big brown bus". The big brown bus offers extremely affordable last minute "business" fares. The big brown bus doesn't charge you to change a non refundable ticket. But the big brown bus doesn't have a first class cabin. Oh well. FYI...You might want to stick to CO...I also support AA, and if I support them, they must be catering to that "lowest common denominator" Wouldn't want you to have to lower yourself that far.

 

[Art at ISP]

KC,

All you can do is attack me. I am not even going to respond to you any more. You are a troll, just looking to start trouble. The others around here see my point, but you are just interested in stirring it up. I will not let this thread denigrate, so if it isn't about the subject, keep it to yourself.

 

[SS255]

And maybe the dividend miles program needs to be revamp to allow high yield customers the perks versus low yield segments

They can start by permanently restoring the 50% EQM bonus for Y/B fares - something they took away from us.

Right now the only reward for high yield customers is that they can confirm their upgrade on a Y or B fare at the time of booking....if it is available. Of course, the majority of the high yield customers who buy Y/B fares book at the last minute....when all of the upgrades have already been doled out to elites on the el cheapo fares, so this so-called perk is not all it appears to be on the surface.

 

[Coffee_Tea_Or_Me]

I can not in good conscience give NWA and their scumbag Management Team one thin dime of revenue. The way they treat workers virtually ensures a sh!tty attitude and poor customer service.

Hear, Hear! Good for you!!

 

[gaucho99]

Here's a brief explanation from the company on their thinking behind the new policy.

FAQs

Q: Why did you discontinue the special discount for upgrading from Y/B fares?

A: In an effort to provide better customer service, we are attempting to streamline Dividend Miles policies where possible. The Y/B upgrade fare discounts were under-utilized, accounting for less than .1% of all award travel. In most cases, Preferred members are not impacted by this change, since Preferred members are automatically eligible for instant upgrade when ticketing a reservation in Y or B class to most destinations US Airways flies.

Q: Why do I need to pay more than $1,200 in order to upgrade a roundtrip transatlantic itinerary?

A: The demand for transatlantic business class is high, and fares typically range between $2,500 and $3,500. By having a minimum fare rule, Dividend Miles can continue to permit members to upgrade to business class for just 30,000 miles each way. The $1,200 fare rule includes all taxes & fees (for example, a ticket is eligible to upgrade if it costs at least $1,000 and there are $200 in international taxes and fees).

Q: Why did you raise the one-way domestic upgrade mileage requirement from 10,000 to 15,000?

A: US Airways found that the 10,000-mile requirement (the lowest in the industry) was impacting our top Preferred members' ability to utilize their complimentary auto-upgrades. This change will result in an increased probability that our Preferred members will receive a complimentary upgrade.

Q: I am a Chairman’s Preferred with complimentary transatlantic/Hawaii upgrades. How does this impact the future usage of the upgrades I currently have?

A: This change will not affect your ability to use your Chairman’s preferred complimentary upgrades. In fact, this means that you will be eligible to upgrade if you spend $1200 or $600 one-way, which in many instances is less than you had to spend previously in order to use the complimentary upgrade for transatlantic flights.

Q. What if I already have an upgrade for less miles?

A. The mileage amount will not be affected. Any new travel plans made after 10/3/07 will require the new upgrade mileage award.

 

[Art at ISP]

SPIN SPIN SPIN.

The main issue is not that they made the changes, it's that they snuck them in and quietly put them on the web site. They never announced any changes. Basically they are just charging more for less.

Sorry Gaucho, the answers in your Q and A are just more spin....it's a bad move for customers AND eventually for the company.

 

[gaucho99]

I'm optomistic the service is going to improve. Hopefully 6 months from now you'll be saying we're paying more but we're getting more too.

I don't understand what you mean when you say they never announced it. The change does no take effect until October 3rd and they have just made the announcement.