More 787/737/A350 media blather

[cageyjames]

Aloha and ATA both fly different 737 variants to the Islands and their service standards exceed those of USAirways by leaps and bounds.

True (though I haven't flown Aloha to Hawaii since they had that old PHX-SNA-HNL flight).

I can fly Hawaiian PHX-HNL, on a widebody, with full service which is better than ATA or US any day. While it is true you can have great service on a narrowbody, most people will pick widebody service to the islands over 737 any day. For anyone at US to even suggest that 739ERs to Hawaii is even close to a good idea is ludicrous.

Actually I take back everything I said. I hope US won't be introducing widebody service from PHX so I can continue to enjoy flying Hawaiian (plus has anyone checked out their new website? The inverse of the US abomination).

 

[Boeing4me]

New article speculating that US will go with the A350xwb. I hope this is wrong and US goes with the 787. Time will tell.

ATW: US Airways targets Paris Airshow

 

[BuffaloJoe]

New article speculating that US will go with the A350xwb. I hope this is wrong and US goes with the 787. Time will tell.

ATW: US Airways targets Paris Airshow

Airbus must be giving away abunch of A330's if they are to go with the A350. The A350 is 7 years away from its first assembly. And that is if it stays on schedule. The current way Airbus' schedule is, the Ottoman Empire may be back in regime. And US will have to hope and take a big gamble on fuel prices being held at reasonable levels. Even if the A321 is re engined, will it be enough to make Hawaii, even with the heat in LAS and PHX? I can't see how you can compete with weight restricting flights.

 

[A320 Driver]

Airbus must be giving away abunch of A330's if they are to go with the A350. The A350 is 7 years away from its first assembly. And that is if it stays on schedule. The current way Airbus' schedule is, the Ottoman Empire may be back in regime. And US will have to hope and take a big gamble on fuel prices being held at reasonable levels. Even if the A321 is re engined, will it be enough to make Hawaii, even with the heat in LAS and PHX? I can't see how you can compete with weight restricting flights.

RE-engine an A-321???

I don't think you will ever see that. There was an A-322 proposed with a different wing and bigger engines. You would come closer to seeing one of those than seeing the 321s with new motors.


A320 Driver B)

 

[flyJOE]

I know it sounds crazy about flying 737-9's to Hawaii, but you already have UA & AA flying 757s to HI & I believe DL is going to as well, if they already haven't. The days of running widebody's to HI from the mainland are definitely on the decrease. You're seeing limited 747s/777s, unless it's UA & NW rotating them to their Japan services.

Taking away the perception that you're on a 737 to HI, wouldn't you prefer flying a newer 737 vs. a 15-20 year old 757?

WestJet is flying 737s from YVR to OGG/HNL, Air Pacific does a 737 from YVR-HNL-NAN, and as mentioned earlier the TZ & AQ flights from CA. On the Atlantic side, you have AC flying an A319 from YYT-LHR. Obviously range is going to be the big issue with the 737.

 

[USFlyer]

Some seem to be assuming that getting A330-200s and A330-300s in the meantime is a bad thing. The A330 is still a great plane, and NW has been using them quite succuessfully to HNL, Asia and Europe now for several years. My gut says Airbus gives US A330s on the cheap in return for an A350 order, with deliveries to start in 2014. I suspect the 2013 date will get pushed, as these dates always do.

I'd also like to see Airbus offer a competitive long haul domestic aircraft. Everytime I take off in an A321 fully loaded for a PHL-West Coast run, the plane feels like it's going to fall apart with the vibrations. This has to be reducing the life of the hull each time. You never got this with the B757. Instead of the A318, Airbus should have built an A322.

 

[PHL]

RE-engine an A-321???

But I thought the newer A321's that US will be taking delivery of actually have higher thrust engines. Is that not correct? Or do you define "re-engine" as something different?

 

[FWAAA]

Some seem to be assuming that getting A330-200s and A330-300s in the meantime is a bad thing. The A330 is still a great plane, and NW has been using them quite succuessfully to HNL, Asia and Europe now for several years.

Of course it's a great plane. It's just heavier and less fuel efficient than Boeing says the 787 will be. In 1998-99, when jet fuel was about $0.55/gal, it made perfect sense. For the past two years, with jet fuel hovering too close to $2.00/gal or higher a majority of the time, the A330 just isn't an optimal solution anymore. It's not Airbus' fault and it's not LCC's fault; it's the fact that fuel is more than triple the price it was when the A330 (and the A380) looked like great ideas.

If oil prices collapse and fuel moves back closer to $1.00/gal and stays there for a long time, cheap A330s will be excellent solutions and money spent on 787s to replace 767s won't look as smart.

 

[cageyjames]

Taking away the perception that you're on a 737 to HI, wouldn't you prefer flying a newer 737 vs. a 15-20 year old 757?

I find neither acceptable to be honest. I'd rather be flying on a 20 year old 767 than a brand new 739ER any day. US can run with the narrowbody aircraft to HNL, but I won't be on them.

I miss the days when I was able to use my old HP FlightFund miles for Hawaiian. Now I'm just paying them for the privilege.

All this talk on this forum about 739ERs to Hawaii sickens me and just confirms where this airline is headed. The fact that the 752s have trouble as it is getting there should end any discussion about any narrowbody going from PHX or LAS to Hawaii.

The true discussion should be how to get those 762s (and eventually the older A333s) to Hawaii by getting new better aircraft for Europe.

 

[A320 Driver]

But I thought the newer A321's that US will be taking delivery of actually have higher thrust engines. Is that not correct? Or do you define "re-engine" as something different?

RE-engine to me means to remove those in service and replace them with something else. Now, as of last month, I was told no decision had been made on engines for the 321s due for delivery starting next year.

Guess we'll have to wait and see.

A320 Driver B)

p.s. B-767s would be perfect for Hawaii. Let Airbus drop a few more 330s on us to replace them on the Europe routes.

 

[USA320Pilot]

The ATW article on a new aircraft order is more reason to keep the two pilots groups separate and to not negotiate a new pilot contract until the two pilot groups can agree on a suitable remedy to the Nicolau Award.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[PHL]

p.s. B-767s would be perfect for Hawaii. Let Airbus drop a few more 330s on us to replace them on the Europe routes.

I see no reason to believe 767's would move to Hawaiian routes as more A330's come on line. The heavy investment being made in the Envoy cabin reinforces the notion that the company will continue to operate 762s on European routes for quite a few years to come.

The only airline with any decent premium cabin to Hawaii is Continental since they use 767-400's outfitted with BF seating that's no different than what they fly to Europe or Asia. But unlike every other airline, CO did their fleet up right be standardizing each aircraft type for maximum flexibility and compatibility on routes.

 

[cageyjames]

I see no reason to believe 767's would move to Hawaiian routes as more A330's come on line. The heavy investment being made in the Envoy cabin reinforces the notion that the company will continue to operate 762s on European routes for quite a few years to come.

Well one would assume by the time the new 787/A350 gets rolling they can be moved. Look, it's all fine that they want to fly them to Europe, but one would think they would want to get serious about Hawaii.

Logic assumes that they could fill 762s easy given the loads I've experienced on the 752s. PLUS, if the 752s have issues making it to Hawaii from Phoenix, what kind of impact will the 739ERs have? Probably little to none (though I can see the fuel stop in California for them).

I understand that Europe is much more profitable and I wouldn't expect US to even think about sacrificing any route for Hawaii, but this new widebody order should take into account the need for 762s to Hawaii. Also a daily flight from PHL or CLT to HNL would probably be a good idea as well.

 

[FWAAA]

The only airline with any decent premium cabin to Hawaii is Continental since they use 767-400's outfitted with BF seating that's no different than what they fly to Europe or Asia. But unlike every other airline, CO did their fleet up right be standardizing each aircraft type for maximum flexibility and compatibility on routes.

Gotta disagree with you on this one; since 2003, when AA converted its 3 class 763s to 2 class, all ORD/DFW-Hawaii flights (and certain LAX and SFO flights - flown by 763s) have featured 60-62 inch pitch reclining Biz seats just like you'd find on international biz service. Granted, the BF seats might be a tad nicer, but AA is replacing those J seats with new lie-flat seats.

Basically, AA's 757s to Hawaii suck, with 39 inch pitch First class park benches, while the 763s are comfortable for eight hour flights.

Isn't DL gonna standardize its cabins, meaning that its Hawaii 767s will have international J seats as well?

 

[BoeingBoy]

The ATW article on a new aircraft order is more reason....

Yup - the West folks will enjoy operating those new widebodies to Europe.....

Jim