More AA gates coming in LAX

IORFA

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Feb 7, 2003
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Supposedly, the plan is to re gate T4 and in the process the plan is to add 2 mainline gates. Also, the plan is to open a closed domestic gate in TBIT. So 3 new gates coming online and 20 new flights. This is supposed to happen by summer. The plan to move Delta to T2 and 3 was also mentioned as happening in 4-5 years. This all came from the latest crew news. Here's hoping it all happens soon. We could use more gates in LA time to actually add all the rumored flights.
 
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Slowly but surely,...............Del - DUH (in LAX and SEA) will become the equivilant of what they ARE today in DFW.  A NON Threat  !
 
Acting like the true  " # 3 " that they ARE, they're  back tracking in LAX, and though it will take longer to happen, AA and AS will SQUEEZE thier bawls in SEA.  With the lone exception of SLC(I'm counting MSP as East of the River, though in actuality MSP is just west), DL is nothing more than an  " east of the mississippi" player " !
 
 
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IORFA  would the new gates be wide body capable gates    and if so  wonder if new additional intl flights be added out of LAX
 
NewHampshire Black Bears said:
Slowly but surely,...............Del - DUH (in LAX and SEA) will become the equivilant of what they ARE today in DFW.  A NON Threat  !
 
Acting like the true  " # 3 " that they ARE, they're  back tracking in LAX, and though it will take longer to happen, AA and AS will SQUEEZE thier bawls in SEA.  With the lone exception of SLC(I'm counting MSP as East of the River, though in actuality MSP is just west), DL is nothing more than an  " east of the mississippi" player " !
 
Do you ever know what you are talking about or nah? 
 
Delta is 1) larger than UA in LA and 2) larger than AA and UA in SEA (by a large margin) 
finally Delta is up 20-30%+ in both cities YOY. I don't think you know the meaning of back tracking if you think being up that large is back tracking. 
 
 
boy you guys complain about WT but then post garbage like the above knowing he is going to write 3 pages of crap about it. Sometimes its really not hard to see why he trolls the heck out of yall. 
 
robbedagain said:
IORFA  would the new gates be wide body capable gates    and if so  wonder if new additional intl flights be added out of LAX
I'm going to bet that T4 will be losing its widebody gates. (I wouldn't see how they could get two more gates if they didn't) 
 
 
Having said that, with 4 gates at TBIT AA will still be up a net of 1 widebody gate if they do so. (IIRC)
 
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thanks dawg    if DL is relocated to T2 and T3  can they do intl runs out of either one there?  and if so  how many widebody gates can be fit there vs domestic
 
Just as was speculated (and predicted) months and years ago once AA's aggressiveness with gates (and in general) at LAX became more apparent.  With extensive gating rights at TBIT, including the ability to handle domestic departures, it seems logical that AA no longer needs as many, if any, widebody gates at T4.  As such, it makes sense to reconfigure that terminal to maximize the gate utilization with more gates for smaller aircraft.  Coupled with T6, and the Eagle satellite, this should give AA even more room for growth.  And for good reason.  Having just traveled through LAX, it was quite apparent not only how much volume AA is moving through the airport (T4 was absolutely packed) but also - with billboards up and down Century Blvd - how strong AA's brand penetration is in the market.  Quite impressive.  By the looks of the scaffolding outside between T4 and TBIT, and the now-reopened and reconfigured gate 41, it's also clear that the T4-TBIT connector is coming along - which should be yet another huge plus for AA and its partners at LAX.
 
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T4 ALWAYS feels packied. T5 and T7 are much more spacious terminals.

LAX is a shootout for dominance among the big 3 with AA and DL seem to be succeeding at cutting into UA's share.

Let's remember that AA still operates a remote pad at LAX and has gates on T6 so every gate they can add at T4 makes their operation better than the multi-terminal and bussing operation they have right now. the only way for AA to offer a larger operation to what DL and UA have is to have their operation spread across multiple terminals and have bussing. Size might not really matter if the incremental passengers are subjected to an inferior operation comapred to what they can get on other carriers.

and volume at LAX is far less meaningful than the share of local LAX passengers. If AA has to create mass in the local market by adding flights that spread its operation out while other carriers can cater to the LAX local market and do it from a single terminal, those other carriers might do a better job of growing their share of the local market.
 
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Haha - that's a new one.
 
"Size might not really matter if the incremental passengers are subjected to an inferior operation compared to what they can get on other carriers."  I'll remember that the next time we're treated to a diatribe about JFK.
 
The desperation really is so transparent - classic.
 
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Except DL has had a larger operation at JFK thru all kinds of terminal configurations and AA continues to give up share despite having better facilities.

AA simply has an operation at LAX that is and will be spread out over multiple terminals and involve bussing.

at JFK, share has shifted away from AA even with better facilitis.

at LAX, share has shfited to DL even with the smallest number of gates among the big 3.

If facilities were all that mattered, then AA should be gaining share at JFK and should have built out its terminal but they haven't.

if facility size alone meant that share should be shifting to AA at LAX in the local market and at the expense of competitors, then that is not what has happened.

It is great if AA grows at LAX - but they have lost share in the JFK market, the largest market from LAX, and they have not pushed above DL or UA in the TPAC market in terms of local revenue. AA at best is aiming for just equality with DL in Asia and Australia IF AA retains both Tokyo flights.

AA's size advantage at LAX comes from flying to more of its own hubs (AA has more hubs) and by having service to cities like OKC and Wal-Mart int'l that aren't big enough to move the total share of the market.
 
robbedagain said:
thanks dawg    if DL is relocated to T2 and T3  can they do intl runs out of either one there?  and if so  how many widebody gates can be fit there vs domestic
I think it means that the wide body flights move to TBIT. I think the connector is supposed to be done this year. It does look like it is coming along slowly. Which will help the whole operation. We already have flights leaving from TBIT. CRAP, WT Is back. It was nice while it lasted!!!!!!
 
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With four new widebody gates at TBIT available to AA on a preferential use basis for international or domestic flights, T-4 gates can be reconfigured to add some single-aisle gates. That said, T-4 won't be losing all of its widebody capable gates, of which there are currently six.
 
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robbedagain said:
thanks dawg    if DL is relocated to T2 and T3  can they do intl runs out of either one there?  and if so  how many widebody gates can be fit there vs domestic
T2 is nothing but international while T3 is nothing but domestic. 
 
All the gates at T2 are widebody gates (up to 747/77W) and all but 1 gate at T3 are, IIRC, narrowbody gates. T3 also has 1 77W/747 gate for the VA flights that leave there. 
 
FWAAA said:
With four new widebody gates at TBIT available to AA on a preferential use basis for international or domestic flights, T-4 gates can be reconfigured to add some single-aisle gates. That said, T-4 won't be losing all of its widebody capable gates, of which there are currently six.
I should have been more clear. 
 
I meant 787/777/350 gates not 767 gates. Its either 3 or 4 of those size gates plus 2 767 gates. IIRC 
 
IORFA said:
Supposedly, the plan is to re gate T4 and in the process the plan is to add 2 mainline gates. Also, the plan is to open a closed domestic gate in TBIT. So 3 new gates coming online and 20 new flights. This is supposed to happen by summer. The plan to move Delta to T2 and 3 was also mentioned as happening in 4-5 years. This all came from the latest crew news. Here's hoping it all happens soon. We could use more gates in LA time to actually add all the rumored flights.
 
We've been speculating about this for months at airliners.  Looks like some of us got it right.
 
As to Delta's move, if AA is talking about it, then LAWA must have an agreement in principle.  Official news of the negotiations came months ago in a note to a LAWA Board Report.  In part, LAWA is seeking to free up gates at T5 so that they can make a deal for AA's hangar and T4 (the master lease).
 
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WorldTraveler said:
[...] and if DL moves and adds space - which could include a similar arrangement to what AA is doing at 4 and the international terminal with DL gaining space in part of the int'l terminal along with 2 and 3 - then all of the talk about how much of a size advantage AA would have in space would turn out NOT to be the case after all.

[...] Some of us have said for years that all of the talk about AA growing at LAX could not happen without knowing the rest of the story which includes what DL would do. DL has indicated LAX is a key part of its west coast strategy alongside SEA and if they are willing to spend money to gain additional space, then the LAX market will tighten between AA and DL. Given that DL has managed to significantly grow its market share even with the smallest number of gates of the big 3, it is far from clear how any facility restructuring at LAX will affect market share long-term and on the west coast as a whole.
 
Here is the rest of the story.
 
As of the first quarter of this year, Delta was prepared to proceed with the second phase of the T5 improvements until LAWA pulled the plug on that phase pending a deal.  The Board Report I mentioned above confirms this.  The second phase of T5 improvements would more or less have relegated Delta to T5 and the number of gates that they have now.  End of story.
 
The real story here is what LAWA is doing for AA.  AA and LAWA have been in negotiations over the status of AA's maintenance facilities and the Master Lease to T4.  AA wanted more gates in TBIT, plus some of the items mentioned in the first post.  LAWA has offered more gates in T5.  If LAWA can finalize a deal with Delta and partners to move to T3/T2, AA will expand into T5.
 
As to Delta, it benefits by pure accident from the necessity LAWA had to make a deal with AA.  There is no Delta Master Plan at work here.  On that note, you should know that, while LAWA intends to build a connector between T3 and TBIT, it has not offered Delta preferential use of any gates at TBIT.  It also the case that Delta will not have exclusive use of T2.  Southwest is already acting on its intention to use T2 for international arrivals/departures and domestic departures.  In short, after all the dust settles, Delta will not have overcome AA's size advantage at LAX.  AA will still have many more preferential use gates, including the ones it gains at T5.  What Delta gains, however, is access to more common use gates in TBIT and T2.  I imagine that is the incentive.
 
Moreover, it is not going to be a seamless move for Delta.  I don't see how LAWA/Delta build a connector and new T3 in 4 to 5 years.  I'm thinking the 4 to 5 years was AA's stipulation for any deal.  That's probably when AA wants the T5 gates or no deal.  However, LAWA was counting on the MSC North to be ready before starting any work on T3.  If I remember correctly, the MSC North won't be ready until 2020.  Meanwhile, the 2024 Olympic bid has put pressure on LAWA to accelerate work on the CTA APM.  Only so much money, so little time.
 
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LDVAviation said:
 
We've been speculating about this for months at airliners.  Looks like some of us got it right.
 
As to Delta's move, if AA is talking about it, then LAWA must have an agreement in principle.  Official news of the negotiations came months ago in a note to a LAWA Board Report.  In part, LAWA is seeking to free up gates at T5 so that they can make a deal for AA's hangar and T4 (the master lease).
not anywhere close to a done deal yet. 
 
Though probably moving in that direction though. (the other ideas seem like pipe dreams to me.) 
 
Also Delta is waiting to see what United does with its hangars. If they move over to the old CO hangars (likely) Delta is going to try to get the old UA space and build a two bay hangar. (2 narrow bodies or 1 A350/777)  
My understanding is FX is also trying to get the old CO hangars however. 
 

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