More competition for AA/ Eagle!

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Just heard, AA/Eagle will get some competition into the Carib! ----- Jet blue to fly into STT, and STX with 100 seat regional jets, twice a day out of SJU starting in Dec.!!!

 

[WorldTraveler]

B6 is also saying that they will now be the largest airline in PR.... indicative of the changes that have already come to the Islands and will continue to come...

 

[damajagua]

<_< ------- Just heard, AA/Eagle will get some competition into the Carib! ----- Jet blue to fly into STT, and STX with 100 seat regional jets, twice a day out of SJU starting in Dec.!!!

Really????AA has been pulling out of SJU and SJU-Caribbean flying for awhile now.
No news here.

 

[Pocketrocket]

BUNCH OF BS IF YOU ASK ME. ONLY REASON JETBLUE WANTS TO MARKET IT IS BECAUSE IT IS E.A.S. SO IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW THE LOADS ARE!!!!

 

[Barfbag]

B6 has been hand in hand with AA on the Carib issue and other domestic routes to follow for some time now.
If you fly out of JFK, the gate's monitors displays AA & jetblue signage - with wording something " like the way to the world".
Why would AA put these Ads up, if they weren't getting a cut from sales at B6?

 

[damajagua]

B6 has been hand in hand with AA on the Carib issue and other domestic routes to follow for some time now.
If you fly out of JFK, the gate's monitors displays AA & jetblue signage - with wording something " like the way to the world".
Why would AA put these Ads up, if they weren't getting a cut from sales at B6?

Agree with you 100% I have seen the jetblue/AA signage all over JFK gates. I have been wondering the same
thing for a long time.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Yes, AA people blindly think B6's incursion into AA markets is a good thing.
.
We've seen this story so many times already - AA pleads it can't make it in markets, abandons them, and then signs a codeshare agreement with B6 who rushes in to take over the markets.
.
AA has a codeshare deal with B6 - there is no preferential pricing over what B6 would get selling the seats themselves. AA doesn't get profits on B6's seats. .
.
Their employees make a whole lot less than AA employees, they are non-union, and their profits go to their stockholders.
.
All AA gets is to maintain some sort of presence in markets that it still believes are strategically necessary, even though AA can't make it work for them to fly those routes themselves.
.
AA now wants to get B6 to codeshare on AA int'l routes in order to help replace the business that AA has lost because it cannot maintain a presence in the key domestic markets that are necessary to feed its highly competitive NYC flights.
.
Until/IF AMR has an equity stake in B6, JetBlue is competition to American Airlines. Don't ever forget it.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, AA people blindly think B6's incursion into AA markets is a good thing.
.
We've seen this story so many times already - AA pleads it can't make it in markets, abandons them, and then signs a codeshare agreement with B6 who rushes in to take over the markets.
.
AA has a codeshare deal with B6 - there is no preferential pricing over what B6 would get selling the seats themselves. AA doesn't get profits on B6's seats. .
.
Their employees make a whole lot less than AA employees, they are non-union, and their profits go to their stockholders.
.
All AA gets is to maintain some sort of presence in markets that it still believes are strategically necessary, even though AA can't make it work for them to fly those routes themselves.
.
AA now wants to get B6 to codeshare on AA int'l routes in order to help replace the business that AA has lost because it cannot maintain a presence in the key domestic markets that are necessary to feed its highly competitive NYC flights.
.
Until/IF AMR has an equity stake in B6, JetBlue is competition to American Airlines. Don't ever forget it.

You are almost entirely correct. But JetBlue mechancis make more than we do. I can't speak for pilots and flight attendants because we don't fly their equipment.
As for other job classifications, I believe they are as competitive as AA.

As for employee stock options, I recall the early employees getting optioned at $20-30 a share.

Guess where those options are now?

So the whole premise of giving the employees shares in the company as a way of ensuring their productivity and morale are the highes is a fallacy.

THAT'S WHY I DON'T WANT STOCK IN AA! Leave it for the executives.

 

[WorldTraveler]

and how do B6 benefit costs compare to AA benefit costs?
Is B6 total compensation per employee as high as or higher than AA? I don't think so.

 

[FWAAA]

B6 pilot hourly rates are almost as high as AA hourly rates (comparing A320 to 738) but of course, AA's benefits are much more costly and the B6 pilots are more efficient than the AA pilots. B6 flight attendants, fleet and agents earn much less per hour than comparable AA employees (and, I assume, are more efficient than comparable AA employees).

 

[Hopeful]

B6 pilot hourly rates are almost as high as AA hourly rates (comparing A320 to 738) but of course, AA's benefits are much more costly and the B6 pilots are more efficient than the AA pilots. B6 flight attendants, fleet and agents earn much less per hour than comparable AA employees (and, I assume, are more efficient than comparable AA employees).

More efficient than a new AA part time FSC earning a few shekels above minimum wage?

You would think if Jetblue's cost were so low and their business model sosuccessful, they would be earning billions a year...Seems like the might jetblue is just doing so-so.

Now, let's talk EXECUTIVE COMPENSATION between the two.....oh..ok has nothing to do with labor costs....

 

[WorldTraveler]

B6 pilot hourly rates are almost as high as AA hourly rates (comparing A320 to 738) but of course, AA's benefits are much more costly and the B6 pilots are more efficient than the AA pilots. B6 flight attendants, fleet and agents earn much less per hour than comparable AA employees (and, I assume, are more efficient than comparable AA employees).

precisely... AA employees are far better paid in terms of total overall competition and B6 employees work alot harder for less money... which is why B6's CASM is so much lower - which is why AA cannot be competitive with markets in which B6 is the price leader. While strategically necessary, AA has no choice but to exit the markets - and the next best option is to turn around and then codeshare on its competititor, even though that competitor drove AA out of those markets.
.
If AA can find a business model that allows them to succeed by leaving lower cost domestic flying to other carriers with whom they can partner - even if it is on a competitive basis since two domestic carriers cannot share revenue or have anti-trust immunity - allowing AA to focus on more lucrative long haul markets, then AA can win.
.
But other network carriers remain in markets which AA has to leave because of its costs and AA has only been able to maintain capacity by redeploying it to DFW and MIA which have traditionally been less competitive. Now that competition in ORD is increasing rapidly and AA is facing more and more competition even in N. Texas which will; culminate in a couple years with reworking of the Wright Amendment, the concept is less certain that AA can maintain a global network without being able to maintain its own presence in key US markets, many of which are now dubbed as part of AA's cornerstone strategy.

 

[will fix for food]

While everyone is all upset over Eagle here comes JetBlue...

 

[eolesen]

More efficient than a new AA part time FSC earning a few shekels above minimum wage?

Yep. Efficiency isn't just about the wages.

That part-time FSC earning a few shekels above minimum wage is still getting a pension and a damn good medical plan, and it doesn't matter what he's paid if the airline he works for can't put the right size aircraft into a particular markets (or even serve other markets) because of contract language in his or someone else's contract...

B6 can order 777-300's tomorrow, and fly them on 14 hour flights without worrying about anything except how much to pay for them. They could chose to serve another dozen or two backwater destinations as quickly as Sky West or Air Wisconsin can get the equipment lined up. Heck, B6 just ordered A321's, and didn't have to negotiate via a third party on how much they're going to pay the guys flying it vs. the A320 rates...

Efficiency comes from having the ability to make decisions which allow the company to compete with other airlines.

If unions showed any interest in competition (other than keeping up or staying one step ahead of what other airlines' employees are getting paid), maybe AA would be in a much different market position...

 

[fltguymk]

precisely... AA employees are far better paid in terms of total overall competition and B6 employees work alot harder for less money... which is why B6's CASM is so much lower - which is why AA cannot be competitive with markets in which B6 is the price leader. While strategically necessary, AA has no choice but to exit the markets - and the next best option is to turn around and then codeshare on its competititor, even though that competitor drove AA out of those markets.
.
If AA can find a business model that allows them to succeed by leaving lower cost domestic flying to other carriers with whom they can partner - even if it is on a competitive basis since two domestic carriers cannot share revenue or have anti-trust immunity - allowing AA to focus on more lucrative long haul markets, then AA can win.
.
But other network carriers remain in markets which AA has to leave because of its costs and AA has only been able to maintain capacity by redeploying it to DFW and MIA which have traditionally been less competitive. Now that competition in ORD is increasing rapidly and AA is facing more and more competition even in N. Texas which will; culminate in a couple years with reworking of the Wright Amendment, the concept is less certain that AA can maintain a global network without being able to maintain its own presence in key US markets, many of which are now dubbed as part of AA's cornerstone strategy.

Someone please stop this "broken record!" Again and again, bla, bla, bla! We have heard it over and over. Go play somewhere else!