More competition for AA/ Eagle!

[FWAAA]

I've never bought into the argument that he who rules NYC or the transcons rules the industry anymore than I've bought into the argument that being the biggest airline makes you the leader.

The only thing AA should be concerned with is being profitable. If it means they're the third or the sixth biggest dick on the table, who cares?

I agree with you, but WT has said it so many times in the past few months (since his return to this website) that it's difficult to not agree with him.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I agree with you, but WT has said it so many times in the past few months (since his return to this website) that it's difficult to not agree with him.

The simple reason why NYC is continually brought into conversations about AA is because AA has established that NYC is a key part of AA's network. They set that goal, not me.
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Arguing for pay for performance and scrutiny of your work, whether it involves management or frontline employees, requires honestly accepting whatever realistic assessment can be made about your work.
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As a publicly traded company, AMR is required to divulge enough information about its business such that assessments can be made of managment's effectiveness in accomplishing its stated objections, which include providing an acceptable return to the shareholders and specifically, whether they are succeeding or not at the strategies that they set forth.
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The same principle applies to politicians, who are required to give up some of their own privacy, as well as professionals who make statements about their professional experience.
If either one fail to deliver according to the promises or level of acceptable performance for their industry, profession, or role in society, they are bound to be criticized for their performance.
Some people prefer to stay out of the public spotlight or to advertise by word of mouth rather than engaging in public forums so that they can limit the number of people who might criticize them.

AA doesn't have that luxury.... it is a publicly traded company and as long as it is it will continue to be open to public scrutiny.
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Public scrutiny of corporations makes it very clear who is reponsible for the performance of the company; in AA's case, it also will show that AA has repeatedly lost enormous revenue opportunities in its key markets, and it continues to the the same thing in its key markets such as NYC and CHI.
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It also serves to show that managment is responsible for far more of the company's current poor performance rather than the employees, as the company and its supporters try to portray.

 

[eolesen]

The same principle applies to politicians, who are required to give up some of their own privacy, as well as professionals who make statements about their professional experience.
If either one fail to deliver according to the promises or level of acceptable performance for their industry, profession, or role in society, they are bound to be criticized for their performance.
Some people prefer to stay out of the public spotlight or to advertise by word of mouth rather than engaging in public forums so that they can limit the number of people who might criticize them.

Doesn't that higher standard you speak of also apply to clergy? Or does "robes off" time have different rules regarding personal conduct? Clergy in most communities are considered public figures, and are always a representation of their denomination and the position, no? I know that Mormon 24/7 missionaries have a very strict code of conduct; not so certain about others, but they do sort of set the bar for everyone else...

Your little inferences in the paragraph above, Tim, are interesting...

You insist on total anonymity and staying out of the public spotlight, yet you make repeated use of my full professional name, attempt to slander my reputation, and most recently, decide to violate my wife and childrens' security by not only mentioning my hometown, but also alluding to the fact that I wasn't home.

Then you have the balls to cry "invasion of personal privacy" after having done so?... and I'm sure you'll soon be insinuating that I'm making things personal? Sorry, sir. I'll respect your position, but I will not respect you the person. You've taken and made just about any debate into a personal vendetta. You need some serious help.

If you can't respect other people's opinions or their privacy, please do not be surprised if yours is not respected in return, even as a public figure.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Doesn't that higher standard you speak of also apply to clergy? Or does "robes off" time have different rules regarding personal conduct?

Check out the recent scandals re: the Cathaholics and quite a few priests' "love" for the younger generations - that should answer your question.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Doesn't that higher standard you speak of also apply to clergy? Or does "robes off" time have different rules regarding personal conduct? Clergy in most communities are considered public figures, and are always a representation of their denomination and the position, no? I know that Mormon 24/7 missionaries have a very strict code of conduct; not so certain about others, but they do sort of set the bar for everyone else...

Your little inferences in the paragraph above, Tim, are interesting...

You insist on total anonymity and staying out of the public spotlight, yet you make repeated use of my full professional name, attempt to slander my reputation, and most recently, decide to violate my wife and childrens' security by not only mentioning my hometown, but also alluding to the fact that I wasn't home.

Then you have the balls to cry "invasion of personal privacy" after having done so?... and I'm sure you'll soon be insinuating that I'm making things personal? Sorry, sir. I'll respect your position, but I will not respect you the person. You've taken and made just about any debate into a personal vendetta. You need some serious help.

If you can't respect other people's opinions or their privacy, please do not be surprised if yours is not respected in return, even as a public figure.

My you are all of a sudden fascinated by religion.
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Eric, I don't think I am telling anyone here - except perhaps you- anything but your USERNAME on this forum is YOUR REAL NAME. And then you regularly add your first name, include a reference to your blog which talks about your professional credentials, and your twitter account which includes those who follow you and who you follow.
Forgive me if I missed it, but I haven't seen anyone else on this forum do the same thing.
No one invaded your privacy... you voluntarily gave it up and are marketing yourself.

How you could fail to grasp that concept is beyond me.

But we were talking about AA and Eagle.... do you have any addiitonal thoughts on that subject?

 

[eolesen]

Yep. My wife majored in religion after she took a buyout. Google it. Popular topic for us, actually.

I'm transparent about who I am, Tim. I don't hide my biases. But I also don't give out my home town, nor do I post, blog, or tweet about my travel when I'm doing so. I don't post my full name here, something you haven't respected. You doing so apparently creates work for the moderators who clean your mess.

You openly disclosing my city of residence and hinting I'm away is a security risk to my family and property. It is downright irresponsible for anyone to take such liberties, much less someone in your line of work.

Want to keep going? Or are you done now? Jetlag is a *****, and I'm home now, so we can go another few rounds if you'd like.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Your city of residency is posted on the information that you include in the bottom of every post - your blog and Twitter information. If you don't want to establish a link between who you are here and the rest of your life, then remove it.
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Apparently you really don't want to be public since you argue that you are public but then don't want information which you link to your airlineforums posts to be revealed.
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I don't know your wife and I don't want to meet her. I'm not googling her name - even if I knew it - because I have no reason to be interested in the personal life of someone.
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I participate on this forum based on the exchange of ideas. i suggest you learn to do the same.
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I'm not interested in your respect for me as a person. You and anyone else can disagree with my ideas if you choose and then respond on this forum in that context.
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Everyone else on this forum has figured out how to work within that mindset.
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If you can't understand the concept and leave the personal information of other people out of the conversation unless they have authorized the use of it, then you will face legal action to protect the privacy of people including me.
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If you wish to keep your private life private, don't link your posts here to outside information. If you don't want your name used, change your username.

 

[eolesen]

So sue me. I'm happy to pursue other options which might be in order.

My city of residence has no bearing on discussions here any more than yours does. That's why I haven't brought it up.

Please, do keep trying... Unfortunately, your Superman suit is gone. No more mask for the Lone Ranger. No more idle opportunity to make threats against me (or anyone else) professionally without recourse.... I'm sure that pisses you off. But you've brought this one on yourself.

I'm more than happy to continue this over on the blog you keep referencing if you insist, and there won't be a moderator to run to...

My last words of advice on the subject... Drop it. You can't bluff your way out of this one with an essay. And it can only get uglier.

 

[Hopeful]

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If you wish to keep your private life private, don't link your posts here to outside information. If you don't want your name used, change your username.

Quite a debate...
Some people may applaud those who post using their real name. Others get criticized for using fake "user id's"

Here's the way i see it...
Unfortunately, there will always be a few people who cannot just agree to disagree.. they may get so caught up in an argument which affects them so much that they might over react if they ever saw the person who makes statements that incense them.
People are forever stalked and threatened in society just because they don't agree with someone else's opinion. That is a sad reality of life.

Although it might appear admirable that people choose to reveal themselves on this forum, I say better safe than sorry!

 

[WorldTraveler]

My last words of advice on the subject... Drop it.

something we can both agree on.
Discussions of aviation using only user names on this site and information on the member ID page stay here.
Everything else goes elsewhere.

Quite a debate...
Some people may applaud those who post using their real name. Others get criticized for using fake "user id's"

Here's the way i see it...
Unfortunately, there will always be a few people who cannot just agree to disagree.. they may get so caught up in an argument which affects them so much that they might over react if they ever saw the person who makes statements that incense them.
People are forever stalked and threatened in society just because they don't agree with someone else's opinion. That is a sad reality of life.

Although it might appear admirable that people choose to reveal themselves on this forum, I say better safe than sorry!

well said.... which is also why there are laws to protect those who stalk others, including when people take it upon themselves to remove the barrier of privacy that exists around all of us. In the US, there are consequences for breaking laws.
Safe - and decent - is to live in the zones where we are invited and stay out of the rest.
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There hasn't been a single discussion about anything remotely related to B6's new service in SJU in 2 days; anyone care to return to that subject?

 

[FA Mikey]

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There hasn't been a single discussion about anything remotely related to B6's new service in SJU in 2 days; anyone care to return to that subject?

Must be getting hot for you, since you want to change the subject to that of the actual thread. But we know that is not true since you added nothing of substance on the subject just threw out some more BS. It was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to get the last word in a losing battle.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------Why is it WT, that I get the impression you're trying to avoid my question, so I'll ask it again, and again, and again! ------- Did you Sir, in fact, serve your country in the Military?------ Or are you one of those who feels that is a job for someone else?------ Again Sir,your silence is deafening!!! For someone who claims to be so intelligent, that shouldn't be such a hard question to answer!------- A simple "yes!" Or "no", will do! :huh: Signed, a Simple Country boy!!

 

[WorldTraveler]

<_< ------Why is it WT, that I get the impression you're trying to avoid my question, so I'll ask it again, and again, and again! ------- Did you Sir, in fact, serve your country in the Military?------ Or are you one of those who feels that is a job for someone else?------ Again Sir,your silence is deafening!!! For someone who claims to be so intelligent, that shouldn't be such a hard question to answer!------- A simple "yes!" Or "no", will do! :huh: Signed, a Simple Country boy!!

I'm not sure why it is so important for you to know, but no I have not served in the military of the United States.
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As I have said, I appreciate the service of those who have but the majority of Americans have not served in the US military.
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Consider yourself a member of an elite class.

No Mikey,
personal conversations and personal information belong off line.

 

[Frank Szabo]

I'm not sure why it is so important for you to know, but no I have not served in the military of the United States.
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As I have said, I appreciate the service of those who have but the majority of Americans have not served in the US military.

... snip

What the "majority of Americans" have or have not done is really of no interest to the ones who have served.

We do, however, remember those whose parents could afford to buy a congressman (William Jefferson Clinton as an example) and also afford to send their little brats to college so as to reap a deferment and "miss out" on the festivities on the ground and air in Southeast Asia and also those in the Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club, both from which a number of our less elite friends didn't return. There's also the issue of another "man", George Walker Bush, whose daddy kept him out of trouble with the National Guard when he didn't show up to fly as he was ordered to, yet this "man" went on to proclaim "mission accomplished" from the deck of a ship he had no moral right to stand on before the additional deaths of nearly 5000 of our country's youth in the military while chasing the man who "threatened my daddy"..

Some of us simply wonder how people who've never done anything but to save their own asses can have the gall to tell those of those of us who honorably served our country "how things really are".

I daresay all you really appreciate is the simple fact someone beside you had to go and do the dirty work that affords so many the right to be pompous asses.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Frank,
with all due respect, my first love was military aviation and I would have given a career to the military if I had the proper eyesight. Instead, I worked my way through high school and college.
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While you are absolutely correct that there are precious few Americans who appreciate the cost of freedom and even fewer in Europe, as I pointed out to Bob in other threads, 9/11 was a wakeup call to America that our freedom is just one dirty bomb or radical terrorist act away from extinction. I don't like everything our government has done or is doing but we do have people who realize that there is a price for freedom, and as Americans we have paid that price to provide better lives for hundreds of millions of people around the globe - often with only a kick in the teeth from the vast majority of people back home.
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You see, Frank, I don't believe in the idea that you can support the serviceperson but not the effort they do.... we as a country need to think through whether we continue to play the role of global police but in the absence of other countries and their willingness to step up to the plate, it likely is we either continue to do the dirty work - and receive the consequences that come with it on the global stage.
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As you also know, Frank, the military is smaller now as a percent of the Ameircan population than it probably has been in decades - and the chances of needing such a large army are slim.... modern warfare packages alot more force with alot less people - which is part of why some of us admire military aviation.
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I would presume you received your aviation training from the military and I believe they continue to be one of the best training "institutes" in the world - and they provide top notch training to alot of people who couldn't buy it anywhere else - for love or money.
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Again, Frank, thanks for your service. But also remember that just because other people haven't served doesn't mean they don't appreciate the efforts you made then or the values that the US military continues to stand for.