Negotiations update?

[eolesen]

I would think there are far fewer A&P's on the market than MBA's. My A&P school no longer has an A&P Program. Several other A&P programs in my area have shut down, MDW's AA A&P, Gone...Blackhawk, Janesville, gone..Gateway Tech, Kenosha, A&P program replaced by a Diesel tech... Only MATC remains.

You're probably right. And since there's less demand for MBAs on the market, they are accepting applications left & right from recent or soon-to-be university grads faced with the choice of staying in school or working nights at Applebee's.

Sad to see all those regional schools gone, especially Janesville. I don't think they've fully recovered from the GM factory shutdown yet.

 

[TWU informer]

More rumors this week about the company wanting to return most everything in pay and benefits in exchange for extensive work rule changes. Show me the money!

 

[Interested]

More rumors this week about the company wanting to return most everything in pay and benefits in exchange for extensive work rule changes. Show me the money!

Don't believe anything until it's in writing. And then sometimes, even that has to be questioned .

 

[MCI transplant]

You're probably right. And since there's less demand for MBAs on the market, they are accepting applications left & right from recent or soon-to-be university grads faced with the choice of staying in school or working nights at Applebee's.

Sad to see all those regional schools gone, especially Janesville. I don't think they've fully recovered from the GM factory shutdown yet.

<_< ------- Yea but, look at all the jobs Obama has created at Walmart, and Burger King!!! 😉

 

[FWAAA]

A few days ago, this article appeared on the front page of the local Valley newspaper, featuring the LA public schools' aviation mechanic school at VNY where tuition is a mere $1,000:

http://www.dailynews.com/education/ci_17395657

About 150 students who, school officials say, will trade $1,000 in tuition for starting pay of $18/hr to $25/hr and will all get jobs.

It's not a career that's going to make anyone rich, but two young people making $50k can like ok even here in LA.

 

[Bob Owens]

Located just west of the legendary One-Six-Right runway at Van Nuys Airport, it is the only known airframe and power plant mechanics training program in the nation that is open to high-school students. It's also one of just a few located at an airport.

Pretty pathetic reporting.

http://www.aviationhs.net/

I also attended a High School based A&P Program in Nassau County New York and several of my coworkers attended a similar program in Suffiolk, while both of those are closed Aviation HS is still going strong suppling mechanics to Con Ed, Local 1 Elevator mechanics and various other industries. A few years back I leafletted the school with information about the state of our industry. The administration was not happy with the information I shared.

There are now an estimated 121,500 aircraft mechanics, with a projected employment of 129,300 by 2018, according to the U.S. Department of Labor.

Approximately 10 years ago the number was 330,000 according to the FAA. So its down more than half and the overwhelming majority are well over 45 years of age. At AA over half are over 50, the company admitted that during negotiations, thats why they figured the members would not vote against terminating the Prefunding for those under 50.
The airlines must be subsidizing these schools, back in 1977 the cost for a HS based program was $2500, now its only $1000. With only 150 students paying $1000 the school obviously is not funded through tuition.

In 2001 the company eliminated the JR Mechanic program so the nearest equivelent is the OSM.

Starting pay at AA for a mechanic with no experience is $9.58, a far cry from $50k, its less than $20k. We have scores of A&P mechanics who have been waiting for as many as eight years for the opportunity to upgrade. So if these kids want a job at AA after school their only options are to go to either Oklahoma or Texas and wait their turn to try and upgrade. Even in Oklahoma $20k isnt a whole lot of money.

The starting pay for an experienced mechanic, and you have to now have only two years experience working heavy turbine aircraft to be hired as a line mechanic, is $14.74 plus licenses, comes out to around $41k per year. With 18 month progressions it would take them 5 more years to hit $50 k. So figure it would take these kids around 7 to 10 years from when they get certified before they would see $50k.

Currently, in 2011, the base starting pay for a mechanic with no experience is $9,58, in 1995 the year these kids were born, starting pay for a Mechanic with no experience (Junior) was $12.17.

So over the span of their lives not only has the pay not kept up with inflation, it has been cut but 30%. Is this really a good career choice for these kids?

I think we need to take a little trip to "educate" those students what the industry really has in store for them. I think that girls Mustang will start looking a lot more interesting to her.

There's a reason why there's a shortage.

 

[TWU informer]

Supervisors from Tulsa have been going through "interview" training and next week are going to AFW for actual interviews. My personal Supervisor is one of them so this is not rumor.

 

[eolesen]

The airlines must be subsidizing these schools, back in 1977 the cost for a HS based program was $2500, now its only $1000. With only 150 students paying $1000 the school obviously is not funded through tuition.

You obviously didn't read the article.

It costs LAUSD about $500,000 a year to operate the school, including up to $50,000 in instructional supplies, Huddleston said, which comes out to about $3,500 per student.

Since it is a public school, it's obviously not funded by the airlines.

 

[Bob Owens]

Supervisors from Tulsa have been going through "interview" training and next week are going to AFW for actual interviews. My personal Supervisor is one of them so this is not rumor.

The company admitted that they were looking to add around 900 heads this year. Figure attrition is around 500 per year, probably more, so around 1400 need to be hired, and AA alone accounts for roughly half the A&Ps the FAA will likely issues this year based on the last few years.

 

[FWAAA]

The starting pay at AA is not $18/hr to $25/hr, but there are other employers out there. Even the NYC school that Bob linked to says this about pay:

The Aviation industry offers a multitude of dynamic and lucrative careers for people who have the required academic and technical background. Every commercial, private, or military aircraft requires the careful attention of a professional maintenance specialist. This individual must be certified and licensed by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Typically, entry level salaries for such positions range from between $50,000 to $60,000 annually. Our Aviation Maintenance Technology program will provide students with the knowledge, skills and certification required by the FAA.

http://www.aviationhs.net/group_profile_view.aspx?id=e577535c-d133-49a6-af8a-bce034ffab5b

I could see the motivation for profit-making private trade schools to lie about typical starting pay, but what would motivate public high schools to mislead students?

 

[Mr Red]

The starting pay at AA is not $18/hr to $25/hr, but there are other employers out there. Even the NYC school that Bob linked to says this about pay:



http://www.aviationhs.net/group_profile_view.aspx?id=e577535c-d133-49a6-af8a-bce034ffab5b

I could see the motivation for profit-making private trade schools to lie about typical starting pay, but what would motivate public high schools to mislead students?

PURE B/S !!!! Plain and simple

 

[TWU informer]

Bob,

At what point do all of your figures and facts actually get us an agreement?

 

[Bob Owens]

The starting pay at AA is not $18/hr to $25/hr, but there are other employers out there. Even the NYC school that Bob linked to says this about pay:



http://www.aviationhs.net/group_profile_view.aspx?id=e577535c-d133-49a6-af8a-bce034ffab5b

I could see the motivation for profit-making private trade schools to lie about typical starting pay, but what would motivate public high schools to mislead students?

The same as the for profit schools. If students dont enroll the teachers and administrators lose their jobs.
Mario Cotumaccio the Vice Principle, I knew well, we worked together at AA. He quit and went into teaching. The last thing they want to do is come back and have to swing a wrench on nights for what the airlines are paying.

When you consider that the Airlines used to represent the apex of the pay scales I'd really like to see where these students will find that pay.

As I said before, several years ago when I passed out the information it created a lot of turmoil. It got back to our station manager. Several students were irate because they felt they were being mislead, well obviously I may need to make another trip because they are still misleading their students. They may find $50 entry level jobs with the skills they get but not in Aviation.

 

[MCI transplant]

The same as the for profit schools. If students dont enroll the teachers and administrators lose their jobs.
Mario Cotumaccio the Vice Principle, I knew well, we worked together at AA. He quit and went into teaching. The last thing they want to do is come back and have to swing a wrench on nights for what the airlines are paying.

When you consider that the Airlines used to represent the apex of the pay scales I'd really like to see where these students will find that pay.

As I said before, several years ago when I passed out the information it created a lot of turmoil. It got back to our station manager. Several students were irate because they felt they were being mislead, well obviously I may need to make another trip because they are still misleading their students. They may find $50 entry level jobs with the skills they get but not in Aviation.

<_< ------- Hey, Bob, what's a elevator mechanic make? Check it out!

 

[enough already]

Supervisors from Tulsa have been going through "interview" training and next week are going to AFW for actual interviews. My personal Supervisor is one of them so this is not rumor.

And:

Bob,

At what point do all of your figures and facts actually get us an agreement?

Informer I think you must be offering to much information and asking to many relevant and pertinant questions, and it has over loaded his brain..... 😛h34r: