New Pilot contract

[nycbusdriver]

You are full of yourself and completely wrong. Unless your company does it different than any other airline in history. I was on medical leave for 8 months. Guess what. Since the company had no idea when I'd return, after one month they re-staffed and as a result line values went up for line holders to take up the slack and not over burden the reserves staff to avoid being short on reserves for unknown flying throughout the month. After 2 months they re-evaluated staffing and based on my leave and another they increases the reserves by 2, bringing the manpower model back to normal.

You are the ones who are clueless if you think they are "holding" your flying for when you might (or might not) return. Yes, your flying trickles down to reserves. If you have been on leave for more than 2 months then this flying which you bid and then gets removed, has already been baked into their line holder and reserve coverage model. So when/if you leave from medical it has zero effect on manpower. If they don't do this, then they would be indefinitely short on reserve coverage for the undetermined duration of your medical leave. One day of irregular ops due to weather and the entire system would melt down due to a lack of reserves.

Get a clue. You'd think after so many supposed years in this industry you guys would understand the details of how things work. It's actually comically sad that you think the company stands around hoping month to month that you will return so they can get their staffing model back to normal, and won't adjust anything until you retire. Typical narcissistic behavior to think the world stops and waits with baited breath for your return.

Just because you bid a line and get paid for it, doesn't mean your absence hasn't already been accounted for.

Maybe your airline does it differently. Maybe that's why you belong on their forum. Maybe that's why you are truly clueless about US Airways and its operation.

How incredibly arrogant to tell me how things work at MY airline after I've been here for more than 3 decades, and you don't even work here. You smug nitwit.

 

[767jetz]

Maybe your airline does it differently. Maybe that's why you belong on their forum. Maybe that's why you are truly clueless about US Airways and its operation.

How incredibly arrogant to tell me how things work at MY airline after I've been here for more than 3 decades, and you don't even work here. You smug nitwit.

Does your company post regular manpower reports like mine does? If not, then you really have no idea how it works or if your absence has been accounted for already. Show me in writing where it says they wait for your retirement before re-adjusting manpower models. You can't because they don't. Manpower models are updated regularly since it takes 3-6 months lead time to make changes due to pilot training. Have you ever studied aviation or even basic business in school during your illustrious career? It is common sense and common business practice.

Are we to believe that USAirways puts their operation at risk month after month hoping you'll return to work and operating understaffed in the mean time? Do you need to submit a doctor's note at some point validating your sick time usage, or can you call in sick indefinitely? It may be different from one airline to the next, but I guarantee you that there is some policy that allows the airline to predict with SOME idea how long you will be out. At most airlines it's 30 days, and then you need some explanation so they have an idea if you have the flu or a debilitating disease, and then also a clearance to return. It may just be a call from the flight office, or a doctor's note. Why? Because the company has to run an airline. Which means if you've been out for any reasonable amount of time, your absence has been accounted for and retiring from that absence creates no movement whatsoever.

Once again you guys are a bunch of side show amateurs pretending to be important. And no, I never claimed to know everything about your airline. Just know a thing or two about basic business and airline operations. I don't need to be an expert on US to know that your airplanes flies on the same principles of lift, gravity, thrust, and drag, just like ours.

 

[trevrep]

industry standard pay
less 4 day trips

 

[cactusboy53]

The East can talk about a lot. It just so happens that the reserve system is ripe for company abuse due to it's complexity. Even those of us that are lineholders can appreciate the insanity that is the reserve system.

Plus, since a lot of us are about to move up to new positions on larger airplanes and seats on the other side of the cockpit, it would be nice to get this thing fixed before we have to live it (again).

Piece of cake, Pennywistle. All you have to do is show up to the negotiating table and finish what ALPA started (what?....27ish sections before the AAA NC walked away from joint contract negotiations). You will have to finally swallow that Nicolau pill. Then you can have all the pay parity and contract improvements that your heart desires.

Most of us would feel bad for the position that you are in except:
1. AAA NC walked away from the JNC table after the merged seniority was completed.
2. AAA voted in a new union (that promised DOH and a new contract in six months!...That's funny.)
3. The new "NAC" of USAPA (comprised of three pilots that were FURLOUGHED when the merger took place) decided to trash all agreed upon sections of the ALPA TA, because USAPA can do it better (right?).
4. Parker has told you time and time again that your pay parity is tied DIRECTLY to the completion of a joint contract. USAPA's response? DELAY, DELAY, DELAY.

Sorry, Pennywistle. You need to peddle your stinky fish somewhere else. We have already had a big whiff of it here.

 

[prechilill]

Piece of cake, Pennywistle. All you have to do is show up to the negotiating table and finish what ALPA started (what?....27ish sections before the AAA NC walked away from joint contract negotiations). You will have to finally swallow that Nicolau pill. Then you can have all the pay parity and contract improvements that your heart desires.

Most of us would feel bad for the position that you are in except:
1. AAA NC walked away from the JNC table after the merged seniority was completed.
2. AAA voted in a new union (that promised DOH and a new contract in six months!...That's funny.)
3. The new "NAC" of USAPA (comprised of three pilots that were FURLOUGHED when the merger took place) decided to trash all agreed upon sections of the ALPA TA, because USAPA can do it better (right?).
4. Parker has told you time and time again that your pay parity is tied DIRECTLY to the completion of a joint contract. USAPA's response? DELAY, DELAY, DELAY.

Sorry, Pennywistle. You need to peddle your stinky fish somewhere else. We have already had a big whiff of it here.

Great post.

 

[N924PS]

I don't need to be an expert on US to know that your airplanes flies on the same principles of lift, gravity, thrust, and drag, just like ours.

Don't forget. When flown by certain prominent East posters, those US airplanes are propelled by a lot of hot air. Especially the wide bodies.

 

[trevrep]

The Nic is DEAD. Get over it. Let's see, 3500 East Pilots, 1700 West. Yep, dead as a doornail. You don't REALLY think that the East guys fought this for 4 years to let it in, do you? That would be as STUPID as the Nic itself.

Now, how about some constructive conversation about a real contract?

Yup, that mentality's been working real good so far. yup. Moving right along are we?

Surprised you're not on the negotiating committe..well, maybe you are.

You say the NIC is dead...tell me old legal wise one........what will become of the snapback arbitration?

 

[trevrep]

cricket....cricket.....

yawn, hey "oldie".....may be NIC isn't dead (SCOTUS) after all and maybe you lose your snapback arbitration.....we live in interesting times. Care to make a side wager on winning or losing the snapback?

 

[767one]

You are full of yourself and completely wrong. Unless your company does it different than any other airline in history. I was on medical leave for 8 months. Guess what. Since the company had no idea when I'd return, after one month they re-staffed and as a result line values went up for line holders to take up the slack and not over burden the reserves staff to avoid being short on reserves for unknown flying throughout the month. After 2 months they re-evaluated staffing and based on my leave and another they increases the reserves by 2, bringing the manpower model back to normal.

You are the ones who are clueless if you think they are "holding" your flying for when you might (or might not) return. Yes, your flying trickles down to reserves. If you have been on leave for more than 2 months then this flying which you bid and then gets removed, has already been baked into their line holder and reserve coverage model. So when/if you leave from medical it has zero effect on manpower. If they don't do this, then they would be indefinitely short on reserve coverage for the undetermined duration of your medical leave. One day of irregular ops due to weather and the entire system would melt down due to a lack of reserves.

Get a clue. You'd think after so many supposed years in this industry you guys would understand the details of how things work. It's actually comically sad that you think the company stands around hoping month to month that you will return so they can get their staffing model back to normal, and won't adjust anything until you retire. Typical narcissistic behavior to think the world stops and waits with baited breath for your return.

Just because you bid a line and get paid for it, doesn't mean your absence hasn't already been accounted for.

767jetz,

I think it is possible that things are done differently here than at other airlines. When a pilot is off sick or ltd his or her flying will not be replaced until the next system bid which for all intents and puposes happens only twice a year to account for seasonal flying. It has been this was for several years and will stay that way until expansion (not likely) or until the age 65 pilots start leaving. This airline has run short staffed for many years and the management sees no problem with cancelling flights due to inadequate staffing. They will just deny there is a staffing problem call it a job action to blame it on the pilots.

Regards,

Bob Moore

 

[luvthe9]

Don't forget. When flown by certain prominent East posters, those US airplanes are propelled by a lot of hot air. Especially the wide bodies.

Come on over to the 330. You can. You know it would be really interesting to see how you get along with 99.999% of the troops.

 

[jcw]

I think the pilots should turn their attention to other matters as follows:

They should be presssing US to reduce its debt load like all the other airlines. Remember when Piedmont bought every 4th plane with cash. US should be doing the same.

Second they should be focusing on simplying the fleet and bring flying in house either mainline or PSA/Piedmont. For example, customers much prefer the E190/175/170.

Eliminate all the CRJ900 replacing them with E175's same exact seat count unless you go down by one by offering 1 row of first class.Eliminate all of the CRJ700 replacing them with E170's again placing a row of first class would be good. I would be bargaining for all of this to be done by US or it's subsidaries.

This would greatly improve the US product. No customer likes flying CLT to SAT on the CRJ's - they have to be the most uncomfortable airplanes made.

This will increase the amount of US flying adding more pilots and the increase in pilots will make the seniority thing less of an issue. In addition I would be all over US to open up flights to HKG and NRT along with helping them acquire more airlines. By not figuring this out we are on the course of dying as a union and company.

 

[PullUp]

I think the pilots should turn their attention to other matters as follows:

They should be presssing US to reduce its debt load like all the other airlines. Remember when Piedmont bought every 4th plane with cash. US should be doing the same.

Second they should be focusing on simplying the fleet and bring flying in house either mainline or PSA/Piedmont. For example, customers much prefer the E190/175/170.

Eliminate all the CRJ900 replacing them with E175's same exact seat count unless you go down by one by offering 1 row of first class.Eliminate all of the CRJ700 replacing them with E170's again placing a row of first class would be good. I would be bargaining for all of this to be done by US or it's subsidaries.

This would greatly improve the US product. No customer likes flying CLT to SAT on the CRJ's - they have to be the most uncomfortable airplanes made.

This will increase the amount of US flying adding more pilots and the increase in pilots will make the seniority thing less of an issue. In addition I would be all over US to open up flights to HKG and NRT along with helping them acquire more airlines. By not figuring this out we are on the course of dying as a union and company.

Reducing the debt load is an upper management decision, not applicable to a pilot contract.
Simplifying the fleet is an upper management decision...the only influence the pilot contract has on that is the scope clause (which needs to be tightened).
First class on express jets is governed by the scope clause of the pilot's contract. If management brought more of the flying express does back inhouse, then you wouldn't need 1st on express, n'est pas?
I heartily agree that more than an hour on an express jet is like practice bleeding.....
The seniority thing less of an issue? You are obviously not in the airline biz, dude. Seniority is EVERYTHING.
Opening up new cities is always encouraged, but is an upper management decision as well as the matter of acquiring other airlines.
"By not figuring this out we are on the course of dying as a union and company"...I don't really understand this statement...there is so much here that is not in the control of the pilots.
Pilots drive the airplanes from A to B for compensation. Period.
Management develops, shapes, and grows the company.
Investors give managment money if they like what they see management doing.
Pilots do not run the company, although, with their front-row seats, they do see a lot of what is right and what is wrong with the operation (and are not listened to by management).
The pilots here want the company to prosper, but they also want to share in the prosperity.
Aside from the 'seniority thing', that's about the only issue here.
Cheers

 

[gabby]

The 170/190 burns up to 30% more gas than the crj. If Doug p. Was concerned with pax comfort he wouldn't have signed a contract with mesaba to fly the Saabs.

 

[crazystnic]

I'm not a fan of PBS... But I had a CAL pilot on the J/S the other day.

I asked him without injecting my opinion of PBS into the MIX.
I thought the guy was going to have a melt down on the J/S...

he said do not, do not no matter what you do give up lines and the bid sheet.

He Said PBS was absolutely the worst thing.

He said don't let the compnay convince you that they have a great new provider, yada yada yada.

He stated PBS is the worst....

he had been at Midway and Air Tran before CAL.

 

[Watching The Animals]

Rather than just point fingers, why don't you enlighten us? I guess being constructive would be against your nature. We can read the west contract all day long, but unless someone actually enlightens us about how it ACTUALLY works, we won't know.

For example:
How are trips awarded to reserves?
Is it a short/long call system? Is there a pay difference?
what are the penalties to the company if they assign reserves trips on days off?
What are the rules for commuting on reserve?
How are pay guarantees affected by flying on holidays or days off?

The only thing I've ever heard about the West reserve system is that you have to check with scheduling at the end of your trip to see if they want to use you more that day. The East guys typically CANNOT be used more that day, and don't need to check with anyone. Even that detail could be in error, as no one has ever offered to clear up any misconceptions.

I think the above is a list of good questions that deserve a answer. Like all reserve system’s the AWA system sucks. I can say that because I lived it for years. But nevertheless I will try and answer your questions the best I can. There is much more to the system then can be put down in a post but I will try to hit the highlights but keep it brief and as accurate as possible.
If any of this is incorrect I hope someone with more knowledge will post a correction.

How are trips awarded to reserves?
The AWA contract has a short call and long call reserve schedule.
Short call is 2 hours callout to show.
Long call is 12 hours to show.

Short Call- pilots are awarded a reserve line at the beginning of the month everybody obviously starts with zero credit. You’re placed in buckets A,B,C or D. The trips are then assigned to the pilot with the lowest amount of credit in each bucket. Each bucket is a 12 hour shift with a 2 hour callout for report time 3 hours to the aircraft.(A= 0400-1400). The discrepancy in 0400-1400 is due to the two-hour callout. You cannot be called after 1359 but can be called at 1350.
Long Call-same as short call except 12 Hour call out 13 to aircraft.

Is it a short/long call system? Is there a pay difference?
No difference in pay reserve guarantee is 77 hours for both long call and short call. I think.

What are the penalties to the company if they assign reserves trips on days off?
While on a reserve line you have golden days and days off golden days cannot be moved by the company without consent of the pilot. I believe once a month a day off can be moved but then that day turns in to a golden day you can then put that new golden day wherever you would like for the rest of the month. In my five years on reserve I ran into this situation one time.

What are the rules for commuting on reserve?
The rule is you can commute if you can show at the airport within 2 hours on short call and 12 hours on long call. How’s that for needing improvement.
Bottom line is if you live in base the system is really not that bad. I cannot think of a US Airways base I would like to live in. Although some are better than others.

How are pay guarantees affected by flying on holidays or days off?
You are paid 77 hours for reserve anything over 77 hours is paid at your normal hourly rate. There is no holiday pay. If you can pick up time on your days off which you can’t unless you’re very lucky Time
Whores beware that it is also paid at your normal hourly rate but over and above your 77 hours. The daily guarantee for reserves is 5:15 credit per day or what you fly whatever is greater. That being said you can fly 7 hours a day for three days layover 23:55 in Boise fly home on the fourth day and still be paid 21 hours because it averages to 515 per day for 4 days.

The only thing I've ever heard about the West reserve system is that you have to check with scheduling at the end of your trip to see if they want to use you more that day. The East guys typically CANNOT be used more that day, and don't need to check with anyone. Even that detail could be in error, as no one has ever offered to clear up any misconceptions.

You are required to check Maestro or check in with Mama on your last day of reserve only. I personally would always check Maestro no need to remind them of your existence on your last day of reserve. I cannot remember the rule but I think they have 30 minutes from blocking in to call and reassign you. This happens quite a bit when they are short on reserves or they just want to screw with you. It is affectionately called tagged on the west system.