No carryons allowed on flights from/connecting in UK

[avek00]

If we were still the God fearing Judeo-Christian society that we were 60 years ago, the religious zealots would not have had the ammunition (no pun intended) that they've had for going after American culture, and I don't think we'd be in this state of hysteria.

Man oh man, where to begin....

1. If America was the same Judeo-Christian society of 60 years ago -- a society that rather eagerly segregated and denigrated certain Christians based on the color of their skin, and told half of the Judeo-Christians that they have no place in life outside the home -- we'd probably have far bigger problems than we do now.

2. Certain of our policies directly contributed to the rise of OBL/al-Qaeda, Saddam, and the current Iranian regime - namely the backing of Afghan mujahadeen (including Osama bin Laden) against the Soviet Union by the liberal Reagan Administration, the support of Iraq in its war against Iran during the 1980s by the liberal Reagan Administration, and the support of an anti-democratic, repressive, unpopular Shah of Iran by successive liberal presidential Administrations of both parties.

Put another way, we nurtured the crazies and armed them back in the day, and now act shocked that they've decided to turn on the hand that fed them in the first place.

3. The people of the societies you reference do desire some reform and change. Problem is, their national leaders don't want change, don't want to give their people a voice or vote to make a possibility of change, and are backed by the USA out of political and military expedience.

While the Global War on Terrorism requires a strong military response to fight terrorists where they are, the ONLY way to actually WIN this war is to engage the hearts and minds of Muslims around the world. And the only way to effectively do that is for America to be consistent in both word and deed - something that it has not done with respect to the Islamic World for any significant length of time in the last 50 years. In this regard, the type of scrutiny you suggest takes us backwards - in the eyes of the Islamic world, it would be proof positive that America's words are a falsehood that attempt to shadow a racialist animosity of Muslims.

We need effective security - no question about that. But America is innovative and prosperous enough to protect itself without running roughshod over liberties - or repeating its past mistakes of scapegoating an entire group of people - should the nation actually choose to marshal its collective wealth and brainpower instead of acting in reactionary cowardice and xenophobic malice.

I'm off the soapbox now...

 

[Garfield1966]

That's part of the problem. You don't see the point because you're wrapped up in technicalities.

You're right that the killing of Americans is not a mainstream practice.

However, the killing of infidels most certainly is, and our liberal secular society results in Americans as being labeled as infidels.

That's right. It's not our politics which have landed us in this position.

Muslims have a respect and fear of God, and an intense hatred of those who do not respect God or his laws.

By allowing the liberal whack jobs to eradicate any resemblemce of religion out of the schools and the courthouse square and by allowing crap like "Brokeback Mountain" and "Eyes Wide Shut" to be the outward symbols of American culture, we've made ourselves the target.

If we were still the God fearing Judeo-Christian society that we were 60 years ago, the religious zealots would not have had the ammunition (no pun intended) that they've had for going after American culture, and I don't think we'd be in this state of hysteria.

Well folks, you just heard from Jerry Fallwell..... LOL... I seem to recalled reading / hear the same swill when women were given equal rights (BTW, the middle east does not approve of that so do you want to tell all the female FA, pilots, CEO's, police, military personal, .... etc that they have to go back home? Can you let me know when that will happen... I really want to see you get run out of town on a rail). Also recall hearing the same swill when blacks were given equal rights also. I know, now it's the gays turn to be the punching bag for religious fanatics such as your self. BTW, if we are going go on literal interpretations of 2-4 thousand year old fairy tales, when do we get to start stoning people for adultery? I have been looking forward to that for a long time. OH yea, when you drop that bomb shell, are you also going to mention that when women are on their period that they need to live apart from the rest of us for 7 days? I would really like to be away when youi drop that one because my wife will really be pissed.

So, we are going back to Judeo-Christian beliefs huh? OK does that mean …

Lev 25:44 I can have slaves again? I guess we can work on repealing the 14th and 15th amendment later. That should be fun.

If I recall correctly I will be able to sell my daughters into slavery. Why can’t I sell my son? He is a much better worker. I love Ebay.

Also, seem that no one is allowed to work on the sabbath, how is that going to work with all the stuff we have in our society? Will life necessities (hospitals, utilities .. ) be cut a break? The bible clearly states that any violators must be killed. Who will do that? Any warning or just POW…. Bullet to the head?

Who is going to break the news to Red Lobster?

I live in the south and it is really hot. Can I get a pass on the hair cut thing?

I like to play foot ball but my hands sweat a lot in gloves. Do we have to get the foot ball manufactures to switch the hides they use?

I am all for the incest thing. I have not been to a good burn at the stake affair in quite some time. The screams are but un-nerving but they end after a few minutes.

I know, you don’t abide by any of these antiquated ideas. You are a a-la-cart christian as are most folks. We are in 2006. The hammer heads that are blowing people up in the name of Allah are no more Muslims than Jery Fallwell, Pat Robertson or W are christians. They pervert religion for their own personal gains and to justify their actions to the gullible and naive.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Gee, FM, I find myself pretty much in agreement here.

But, of course, not complete agreement.

Quibbles and cavils follow:

Muslims have a respect and fear of God, and an intense hatred of those who do not respect God or his laws.

Unfortunately, they have some different ideas of God's laws than we do. Just letting a woman wear modest Western clothes is against their religious laws in many Muslim countries. And, of course, there is purdah. Women cannot work, drive a car, go to school, or even talk to men without supervision. Rape victims are horribly mistreated. And divorce, sheeese!

by allowing crap like "Brokeback Mountain" and "Eyes Wide Shut" to be the outward symbols of American culture, we've made ourselves the target.

Certainly, BB Mountain is no prize, but they hated us way before it came out. There has always been a lot of pederasty in Muslim culture. Perhaps more tolerated by the authorities there than here. I see no reason why consenting males in a movie should upset them. If nothing else, BBM is an indicator of our freedom. We have the freedom not to see it. And while the boy buggering moralists may not want to see it, they gobble up all of our most violent movies, many of which never make it to the screen here, but are guaranteed to sell in their countries. My own view is that violent entertainment is far more pernicious than the sex we have in our entertainment.

It is our freedom they hate. They want the country to be run by Ayatollahs. And I don't mean Pat Robertson. Any country that is not a theocracy, THEIR theocracy, is an abomination in the eyes of God.

If we were still the God fearing Judeo-Christian society that we were 60 years ago, the religious zealots would not have had the ammunition (no pun intended) that they've had for going after American culture, and I don't think we'd be in this state of hysteria.

I don't believe it is that clear cut. Christian fundamentalists are a larger section of society now than 60 years ago. Religious "leaders" have more influence in politics than ever before. And those leaders are not Norman Vincent Peale or Fulton J Sheen, who were pretty mainstream and non-fundamentalist. The religious leaders who had their own TV shows then were not as fundamentalist as today. I don't recall any "mega churches" with their mega budgets, such as we have now, on TV and not on TV.

However, it is true that in many ways, we are less righteous in much of our entertainment than 60 years ago. But, we can go back farther, before Father Conklin, and see nudity in movies that would not be shown today.

To sum up, they have no greater reason to hate us now than they did before, except perhaps, our support of Israel. Certainly, our culture has not changed all that much. I would go so far as to say that much of their hatred is economic envy, exacerbated by television. 60 years ago, they did not have the information they do now. And, if this country has gone so wrong, why on earth do so many of them want to come here? Economics, I say. And the ones that can't come here are envious and hateful. They have always hated Christians and Jews, but not for the reasons you state. At least not all that much for the reasons you state. I believe they hate us more now in a great part because of the rise of fundamentalism in their religious culture. And, of course, they have been festering for 60 years. And they seem remarkably prone to hatred, anyway, if the Shiite and Sunni thing is any indication.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

The hammer heads that are blowing people up in the name of Allah are no more Muslims than Jery Fallwell, Pat Robertson or W are christians.

Quite true. But they are more deadly, are in greater numbers, and have more influence. And they are in place in a number of the Western countries they are sworn to destroy.

 

[avek00]

Quite true. But they are more deadly, are in greater numbers, and have more influence. And they are in place in a number of the Western countries they are sworn to destroy.

A big reason why the extremists have influence is because the West continues to support/tolerate the unpopular, repressive, despotic regimes in place in much of the Islamic world (such as Saudi Arabia and the UAE) out of political (military bases) and economic (oil) convenience. The extremists generally hate the despots as much as (if not more than) they detest Western values, and thus can find moral if not real support among the populace.

We're not going to take a FOX News (i.e., narrow-minded and non-fact-based) view of the world here, people - our historical (Cold War era) and present actions in the Islamic World and the current terror threats are not mutually exclusive events taking place in a vacuum. The pontification of freedom and democracy by US leaders will naturally fall on deaf ears among Muslims if the image on the evening news is top US officials grinning ear-to-ear with the despots.

 

[Garfield1966]

A big reason why the extremists have influence is because the West continues to support/tolerate the unpopular, repressive, despotic regimes in place in much of the Islamic world (such as Saudi Arabia and the UAE) out of political (military bases) and economic (oil) convenience. The extremists generally hate the despots as much as (if not more than) they detest Western values, and thus can find moral if not real support among the populace.

We're not going to take a FOX News (i.e., narrow-minded and non-fact-based) view of the world here, people - our historical (Cold War era) and present actions in the Islamic World and the current terror threats are not mutually exclusive events taking place in a vacuum. The pontification of freedom and democracy by US leaders will naturally fall on deaf ears among Muslims if the image on the evening news is top US officials grinning ear-to-ear with the despots.

Agreed. I cannot help but wonder if our support of despotic rulers such as the Shah and Batista had any roll in the hatred toward the US of the leaders that replaced them as well as the mistrust of other leaders in the rest of the world. Every action as a reaction.

 

[avek00]

Agreed. I cannot help but wonder if our support of despotic rulers such as the Shah and Batista had any roll in the hatred toward the US of the leaders that replaced them as well as the mistrust of other leaders in the rest of the world. Every action as a reaction.

Exactly - preaching democracy but promoting despots doesn't win many friends, and further fuels the fires of extremism.

 

[FA Mikey]

By allowing the liberal whack jobs to eradicate any resemblemce of religion out of the schools and the courthouse square and by allowing crap like "Brokeback Mountain" and "Eyes Wide Shut" to be the outward symbols of American culture, we've made ourselves the target.

If we were still the God fearing Judeo-Christian society that we were 60 years ago, the religious zealots would not have had the ammunition (no pun intended) that they've had for going after American culture, and I don't think we'd be in this state of hysteria.

Yea if we just prayed more and were more Christian we would all be safe from this horror. If we had just put more restrictions on freedoms we would all be happy. Is this like saying if we just had kept the airlines regulated, there wouldn't be any of this pesky free market? Airlines like Braniff, Pan Am, eastern and TWA would be here flying along with us. Ahhh the good old days.

Oh wait if we restricted freedom and liberties, traded them for the illusion of security and pretended we know the enemy just by looking at them or by their surname name. We would be just like them. Sheltered and living by the laws of a religion and not the freedoms guaranteed by the declaration of independence, the constitution and the bill of rights. We could have our own supreme leader to tell us what to think read and see.

Our politics and policy have helped build resentment and contempt. We insist that everyone conform and act just as we would like.

Had we only known that it was a couple of movies, that brought down the world trade center buildings and built terror networks.

 

[Garfield1966]

Had we only known that it was a couple of movies, that brought down the world trade center buildings and built terror networks.

I thought the movies came after 9/11? Oh, my bad .... I bet they got a pre realease tape and that just put them over the edge ... lol.

 

[Vortilon]

Well, Well, I'm so glad you macho types got it all figured out. Just to back up your philosophy, I would love to see you attempt to practice what you preach in one of these muslim run countries. How long do you think you would last?

 

[Vortilon]

Well folks, you just heard from Jerry Fallwell..... LOL... I seem to recalled reading / hear the same swill when women were given equal rights (BTW, the middle east does not approve of that so do you want to tell all the female FA, pilots, CEO's, police, military personal, .... etc that they have to go back home? Can you let me know when that will happen... I really want to see you get run out of town on a rail). Also recall hearing the same swill when blacks were given equal rights also. I know, now it's the gays turn to be the punching bag for religious fanatics such as your self. BTW, if we are going go on literal interpretations of 2-4 thousand year old fairy tales, when do we get to start stoning people for adultery? I have been looking forward to that for a long time. OH yea, when you drop that bomb shell, are you also going to mention that when women are on their period that they need to live apart from the rest of us for 7 days? I would really like to be away when youi drop that one because my wife will really be pissed.

Hey fatcat,

Don't you the flaws of your argument? There are no Christians acting on any of these items you brought up. I will take Christian society over muslim society.

So, we are going back to Judeo-Christian beliefs huh? OK does that mean …

Lev 25:44 I can have slaves again? I guess we can work on repealing the 14th and 15th amendment later. That should be fun.

If I recall correctly I will be able to sell my daughters into slavery. Why can’t I sell my son? He is a much better worker. I love Ebay.

Also, seem that no one is allowed to work on the sabbath, how is that going to work with all the stuff we have in our society? Will life necessities (hospitals, utilities .. ) be cut a break? The bible clearly states that any violators must be killed. Who will do that? Any warning or just POW…. Bullet to the head?

Who is going to break the news to Red Lobster?

I live in the south and it is really hot. Can I get a pass on the hair cut thing?

I like to play foot ball but my hands sweat a lot in gloves. Do we have to get the foot ball manufactures to switch the hides they use?

I am all for the incest thing. I have not been to a good burn at the stake affair in quite some time. The screams are but un-nerving but they end after a few minutes.

I know, you don’t abide by any of these antiquated ideas. You are a a-la-cart christian as are most folks. We are in 2006. The hammer heads that are blowing people up in the name of Allah are no more Muslims than Jery Fallwell, Pat Robertson or W are christians. They pervert religion for their own personal gains and to justify their actions to the gullible and naive.

Hey fatcat,

Don't you see the flaws of your argument? There are no Christians acting on any of these items you brought up. I will take Christian society over muslim society any day. It's pretty clear that you're a flaming liberal with a chip on your shoulder. Do you really beleive that; if in your perfect world, the US pulled out of all these countries that you are opposed to us being in - everything would get better? Do you really beleive muslims just want to co-exist with all the other religions? How do you explain their problems with Hindus and Buddists by the way?

Geez, I think the last time I checked, muslims are involved with almost 20 wars or slaughters around the globe at present. This whole Darfor thing going on in Africa - it's muslims killing Christians. Just a little tidbit mainstream news won't tell you.

Go ahead and bury your head in the sand. When the next terrorist act occurs here in the States and it turns out that it could have been stopped. Unfortunately, some liberal judge decided it was not fair monitor these high risk types - I hope you're happy with yourself.

Go ahead and keep supporting the aclu and their ilk at your flag burning ceremonies, and ask yourself who would osama have voted for? 😉

Go ahead and take your cheap shots at Christianity. This country was founded on it, and its beliefs.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

This will put a wrench in the works

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...35726&hl=en

 

[Wretched Wrench]

This will put a wrench in the works

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...35726&hl=en

Is there a particular technique for watching this video?

It starts and then is interrupted and then goes on, then is interrupted, etc.

FWIW, I have a slow DSL connection.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

Is there a particular technique for watching this video?

It starts and then is interrupted and then goes on, then is interrupted, etc.

FWIW, I have a slow DSL connection.

While the video is running minimize your browser and let the video completely finish after it is done watch it again it should run smooth

It is about 30 mins long
But worth watching

 

[Vortilon]

This will put a wrench in the works

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...35726&hl=en

Who are you Mike Moore Jr?

The crap in that video is so twisted, only an America hating liberal would bother with it.

It also shows you, that despite all evidence pointing towards the real culprits, some putz with some video skills can throw together this clap-trap video suggesting otherwise.

Point is, despite all it's flaws - the USA is still the best country on this globe! 😉