North Korean Nuke Test

[MrAeroMan]

While the Nazis may have been on the path, they were not at the point that the US was at and given the situation that Germany was in at the end of the war, it is unlikely that they would have succeeded. I did a google search anf the results that I read do not support your thesis.

While what you say may be true, it does not address the issue that N Korea is a sovereign nations and is entitled to run it’s affairs as it sees fit. By the way, the US is one of the largest arms dealers in the world along with Russia an China.

As much as the US would like to be in control of every thing and everyone, this is not going to happen. One of these days, the US will no longer be a super power and we will be the ones doing the bidding of our master. I for one hope they do not treat us the way we have treated the rest of the world but I fear that too is wishful thinking.

The appeasers amoung us think we are the enemy. We are the problem. We give billions of dollars a year to other countries yet we are the bad guys. We're the ones responsible for everything bad that happens in the world. If we're "left" to the ways of the DemoLibs we're sure to be a third world country within a generation.

 

[UAL_TECH]

The appeasers amoung us think we are the enemy. We are the problem. We give billions of dollars a year to other countries yet we are the bad guys. We're the ones responsible for everything bad that happens in the world. If we're "left" to the ways of the DemoLibs we're sure to be a third world country within a generation.

Well stated!!!

Take Care,
B) UT

 

[Garfield1966]

Because he is a nut!!!
Certifiable totalitarian nutcase!
His 'papa' was a nut and he is as well.
If your think he is not a 'nut' then provide something to prove that he is at least a poor politician and not a 'nut'.
Have you ever heard of ‘Potemkin Village’?
Have you stood in Panmunjom and looked at the N. Korean hard cases?

He is a 'nut'!!!
Would you feel comfortable with this 'nut' having a nuke?

UT

As I stated in my original post on this thread, I am not comfortable with him (or anyone for that matter) having nukes. The fact remains that N. Korea is a sovereign nation. And I am jut as uncomfortable with the slippery slope of arguing that just because ‘we’ think you are a nut, you cannot do as other nations do.

I do not know what the answer is on this one. Sanctions do not work. Hardly anyone trades with N Korea. China who does trade with them will not uphold sanctions. According to a former W appointee I saw on the boob tube last night, N Korea has use extortion to get their way before and will do it again. He believed they would threaten to sell nuclear technology to who ever wanted it in order to obtain what they want. Invasion obviously won’t work.

 

[Garfield1966]

The appeasers amoung us think we are the enemy. We are the problem. We give billions of dollars a year to other countries yet we are the bad guys. We're the ones responsible for everything bad that happens in the world. If we're "left" to the ways of the DemoLibs we're sure to be a third world country within a generation.

Not sure where that came from but what ever floats your boat.

Never said we are responsible for all the evils in the world. The folks who say that are as detached from reality as those who think that the US has nothing to do with anything bad in the world and that we only do good.

We have supported dictators and despots world wide such as Pinochet (sp?), Batista, Shaw of Iran, …. ETC just to name a few. Their populace decides that enough is enough and they over throw the bastard. Then they look at us as the enemy. Go figure.

Yes we do quite a bit of good in the world. Unfortunately, just like in the news, and TV in general, people do not really care about the good. It does not sell. No one would watch "Cops" if they were helping little old ladies cross the street and rescuing stranded kittens. Bad news sells. When I was being trained for a customer service job, we were told (numerous times) that a disgruntled passenger would tell far more people about their bad service than a happy passenger would tell about theirs. It is the world we live in.

When we go into a sovereign nation, take their leader out, occupy the nation with no time line. Destroy the infrastructure, … well you get the idea. You think those people are going to embrace us? Do you think other nations will look at what we have done and think we are doing a bang up job?

We are behaving like school bullies. We do not have the right or the ability to dictate what goes on in the world. Whatever world leadership we may have held in the past is long gone. Countries no longer trust us.

Another thing I recall from my days at customer service was that the people who came on the phone and admitted that they screwed up and needed some help. Those people were much more likely to gain my support than those who steadfastly denied that we had screwed up and that they had nothing to do with the screw up that resulted. I suspect that we would gain a substantial amount of support in the world if, when we screwed up (Iraq comes to mind) that we just came out and said that we made a mistake and we are sorry. In some circumstances I think it would work. And no Iraq is not one of them. There are certain screw ups that just can’t be apologized away.

 

[delldude]

Funny,things over NK somewhat rival what was going on in IRAQ.Buffoon running the country,no money for his people,poverty,starvation,oppression....I see your point...screwem'...its not in my backyard.

 

[Seatacus]

Can someone tell me how and where this guy got his nuke materials?

 

[Garfield1966]

Can someone tell me how and where this guy got his nuke materials?

I was wondering that my self. I have not heard/seen anythign to explain it. My WAG would be black market from either China, or Russia. Could all so be a third party arms deal or some sort but I don't know if they have access to stuff like that. Not sure where the brains to run it would come from. Probably Russia or China as well. From what I recall, Sadam was trying to buy the stuff on the open market.

 

[delldude]

they have a couple reactors that the IEA sealed...remember a year or so ago they unsealed them...they are capable of enriched grade material.

In a roundtable discussion with the United States and China in Beijing on April 24, 2003, North Korean officials admitted for the first time that they possessed nuclear weapons. Furthermore, North Korean officials claim to have reprocessed spent fuel rods and have threatened to begin exporting nuclear materials unless the United States agrees to one-on-one talks with North Korea.

North Korea maintains uranium mines with an estimated four million tons of exploitable high-quality uranium ore. Information on the state and quality of their mines is lacking, but it is estimated that the ore contains approximately 0.8% extractable uranium. In the mid-1960s, it established a large-scale atomic energy research complex in Yongbyon and trained specialists from students who had studied in the Soviet Union. Under the cooperation agreement concluded between the USSR and the DPRK, a nuclear research center was constructed near the small town of Yongbyon. In 1965 a Soviet IRT-2M research reactor was assembled for this center. From 1965 through 1973 fuel (fuel elements) enriched to 10 percent was supplied to the DPRK for this reactor.

In the 1970s it focused study on the nuclear fuel cycle including refining, conversion and fabrication. In 1974 Korean specialists independently modernized Soviet IRT-2M research reactor in the same way that other reactors operating in the USSR and other countries had been modernized, bringing its capacity up to 8 megawatts and switching to fuel enriched to 80 percent. Subsequently, the degree of fuel enrichment was reduced. In the same period the DPRK began to build a 5 MWe research reactor, what is called the "second reactor." In 1977 the DPRK concluded an agreement with the International Atomic Energy Agency [IAEA], allowing the latter to inspect a research reactor which was built with the assistance of the USSR.

 

[Seatacus]

Is this what really happened?

You all have to admit that this is pretty funny, no matter which side of the aisle you prefer.

 

[KCFlyer]

The appeasers amoung us think we are the enemy. We are the problem. We give billions of dollars a year to other countries yet we are the bad guys. We're the ones responsible for everything bad that happens in the world. If we're "left" to the ways of the DemoLibs we're sure to Nbe a third world country within a generation.

Many of us "demolibs" that you refer to as "appeasers" think that the only real problem we created was when you cut and ran in the hunt for bin laden and instead had our decider decide that Saddam was a better target and a far worse person. Nevermind that bin laden organized an effort that brought down the world trade center and Saddam had....well....he was a bad guy...and he mighta helped the terrorists....and he mighta been making nukes...and he mighta humped a camel. Why...he gassed his own people (with gas WE gave him).

Nope...some of us "demolibs" sorta think it would have been better to actually GET bin laden...and SHOW the terrorists that if you mess with the US, you're gonna pay...BIG TIME Instead, we've done a damn fine job of showing them that we'll take you to within inches of obliteration...then let you up to rebuild your base (Taliban in Afghanistan sound familiar) while we focus on the "bigger threat" somewhere else.

 

[delldude]

Told ya,Bin laden's at Gitmo and will "come out" shortly before the '08 elections....just at the right moment.
Will rival the carrier landing photo op.... 😉

 

[bagstacker]

Overt would work too.....

Remember a few years ago that train that exploded like all hell in Korea? was destined for Syria and was some bad Ju-Ju weapons stuff there.

As far as Japan is concerned....they may have nuke capability....One of Tom Clancy's books leaned that way....he usually writes based on good info even though they're novels...makes one wonder.

The Japanese almost certainly have the technology to go nuclear, if indeed they don't already have pieces that could be assembled and brought on-line in short order. There is no doubt that they have advanced missile and space technology, up til now it has just been politically impossible for them to roll out nukes, but this latest NK escalation might change all that.

 

[bagstacker]

Any suggestions of what to do with this nutcase? He sure is trying to push everyone's button. And should it be just the US dealing with him. Isn't this guy a threat to everyone? I don't think Japan is too thrilled about this either.

This "nut", tin-pot frontman for the Chinese though he may be, has shown a keen grasp of power politics, and has played Bush like a two-dollar fiddle, right down the line. Bush and the republi-cons won't say "Boo" for fear of offending China, which thanks largely to republi-con policies, now effectively holds the mortgage on the good 'ol U.S.A. in the form of the ever growing trade deficit.

 

[The Drunken Duck]

Can someone tell me how and where this guy got his nuke materials?

i think they obtain the technology know-how from internal development and from pakistan (abdul qadeer khan). not sure where they got the materials from. i have seen reports that they have both plutonium and uranium. do they have sources in country? not sure.

i also seem to recall some sharing of knowledge between north korea and libya prior to libya renouncing its nuke program.

 

[The Drunken Duck]

This "nut", tin-pot frontman for the Chinese though he may be, has shown a keen grasp of power politics, and has played Bush like a two-dollar fiddle, right down the line. Bush and the republi-cons won't say "Boo" for fear of offending China, which thanks largely to republi-con policies, now effectively holds the mortgage on the good 'ol U.S.A. in the form of the ever growing trade deficit.

i think your bias is quite evident in your comments. a couple of thoughts from the duck:

1. clinton was in office for 8yrs and negotiated the Agreed Framework. the north koreans immediately violated it. did clinton do the right thing? who knows. but to reflexisively respond with a bush-bash post seems ill-informed.

2. it is not clear that any strategy the u.s. employed would have resulted in a different outcome. kim jong il operates a rather interesting country. carter and clinton tried a more passive approach and got nowhere. bush was a bit more aggressive and didn't achieve much either.

3. i think their is a tendency in many americans to think that we a/ can solve the world's problems and b/ that we should. my sense is that north korean nuclearization is neither a problem the u.s. should try to solve nor one we can.

4. as i posted before, this issue is primarily a chinese/korean/japanese issue. the u.s. involvement is probably causing a distortion in decision-making. the truly radical policy change would be a removal of u.s. troops from south korea and a public statement that the u.s. would not retaliate if north korea nuked japan. within 24hrs, the chinese, japanese, north koreans and russians would become very active...