Not permitting NR fares to be applied towards Ref fares...

Res

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
361
1
www.usaviation.com
I just don''t understand the logic, let them apply it and make the whole dollar amount non-refundable..charge then 100.00 for any changes, just at NR to fare code on ticket.

Have you ever had someone who purchased a NR tkt to go see someone ill...with advance purchase..the party ill takes a turn for the worse...now they are calling to move up their orig travel date...and we have to sell them a Medical fare..AND tell them your old tkt amount can''t be applied towards new medical fare...not only that but we don''t care that someone is on their last legs you also have to plan where to go on your old ticket or you loose all value of it...some things just don''t make sense. It just makes me angry ...we have all sorts of peace of mind things for everything...although no exception yet for NR ticket towards refundable fare.
 

USFlyer

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
2,084
292
Our corporate travel office has and continues to do this all the time. However, they do charge the $100 change fee for all future changes (since a portion of the ticket is NR). Does US not let its own agents do this? Is it perhaps part of our corporate contract to allow such changes?
 

dinosaur

Member
Aug 25, 2002
52
0
Not sure what res you're in, but we _do_ permit non-refundable tickets to be used against refundable fares.

This has been going on for some time now. The change fee is charged, and the new ticket becomes non-refundable.

If we didn't, USFlyers travel agency would be debited to death and would stop doing it.

Could you please tell me the page in SABRE that says this?
I'll see that it's changed.

If it's a supervisor telling you this, they are very misinformed.

--Dino
 
Dec 21, 2002
395
0
www.usaviation.com
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On 4/27/2003 1:19:56 PM dinosaur wrote:

Not sure what res you're in, but we _do_ permit non-refundable tickets to be used against refundable fares.

This has been going on for some time now. The change fee is charged, and the new ticket becomes non-refundable.

If we didn't, USFlyers travel agency would be debited to death and would stop doing it.

Could you please tell me the page in SABRE that says this?
I'll see that it's changed.

If it's a supervisor telling you this, they are very misinformed.

--Dino

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Who is misinformed???? A good conscientous agent always reads their briefings.

Couldn't resist inputing some latent expertise on this one. Notice below the highlighted red bold faced print..and there are no more "waivers" in this regard , correct? This fare rule page is from today's usairways.com and is the same for all non ref fare codes in the markets selected.Which also means it is a universal non ref fare rule. I don't necessarily agree with it, but facts are facts.The only way I could understand valid disparity is if procedures never bothered to inform the fare rule scripters of a change in policy, which would be par for their course, but I must say not likely in this case.

Fare details for KRA7QN1

ECONOMY CLASS INSTANT PURCH SPECIAL FARE

BK CODE

TO DISPLAY CARRIER BOOKING CODE REQUIREMENTS ENTER RB1
PENALTY

CANCELLATIONS TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE. NOTE - I. FARES ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE AND ARE NOT GUARANTEED UNTIL A TICKET IS PURCHASED. II. IF ANY PART OF THE TICKET IS UNUSED AFTER TICKETED DEPARTURE DATE IT HAS NO VALUE - EXCEPT - CUSTOMER COMMITMENT WILL APPLY-PSGR MAY CANCEL A TICKET PURCHASED WITHOUT PENALTY WITHIN 24 HRS OF MAKING INITIAL RESERVATION PROVIDED SCHEDULED FLIGHT TIME HAS NOT PASSED. CHANGES CHARGE USD 100.00 FOR REISSUE. NOTE - I.PRIOR TO DEPARTURE - CHANGES TO ORIGINATING FLIGHT ON THE TICKET - THE ENTIRE TICKET MUST BE REPRICED WITH CURRENT NONREFUNDABLE FARES. ALL PROVISIONS OF THE NEW NONREFUNDABLE FARE I.E. ADV RSVN/ MIN/MAX STAY ETC MUST BE MET. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE CHANGE FEE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE/ THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE CHANGE FEE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA US ONLY. THESE FARES MAY NOT BE UPGRADED TO A REFUNDABLE FARE TYPE. --- II.PRIOR TO DEPARTURE - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/ RETURN FLIGHTS WHEN THERE IS NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/ DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS. --- A.CHANGES MAY BE MADE ON/PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE DATE OF EACH FLIGHT FOR THE CHANGE FEE WITHOUT REGARD TO THE ADVANCE RSVN PROVIDED THE CHANGE MEETS ALL OTHER FARE RULES. --- B.WHEN THE CHANGE VIOLATES THE TICKETED FARE RULES THE FOLLOWING OPTIONS ARE AVAILABLE AND THE LOWEST SOLUTION WILL APPLY. --- B1.REPRICE THE CHANGED CONTINUING/RETURN FARE COMPONENTS WITH A COMBINABLE NONREFUNDABLE CURRENT FARE. CURRENT FARE MUST BE EQUAL TO OR HIGHER THAN THE ORIGINAL TICKETED FARE VALUE FOR THE CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS. ALL FARE RULES OF BOTH THE RETAINED FARE OF THE UNCHANGED FARE COMPONENT AND THE NEW FARE OF THE CHANGED FARE COMPONENT MUST BE MET. THE ADVANCE PURCHASE IS MEASURED BETWEEN REISSUE DATE AND THE DEPARTURE DATE OF THE PRICEABLE UNIT. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE CHANGE FEE MUST BE COLLECTED. --- B2.THE ENTIRE TICKET MAY BE REPRICED USING CURRENT NONREFUNDABLE FARES. ADVANCE PURCHASE IS MEASURED BETWEEN THE ORIGINAL ISSUE DATE AND THE DEPARTURE DATE OF THE PRICEABLE UNIT. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE CHANGE FEE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFRUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA US ONLY. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE CHANGE FEE MUST BE COLLECTED. --- III.PRIOR TO DEPARTURE - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/ RETURN FLIGHTS WHEN THERE IS A CHANGE TO ORIGIN/ DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS. --- A.THE ENTIRE TICKET SHOULD BE REPRICED WITH CURRENT NONREFUNDABLE FARES. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE CHANGE FEE SHOULD BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE CHANGE FEE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA US ONLY. ADVANCE PURCHASE IS MEASURED BETWEEN THE REISSUE DATE AND THE DEPARTURE DATE OF THE PRICEABLE UNIT. WHEN A NONREFUNDABLE FARE CANNOT BE FOUND/ THE PASSENGER MUST PURCHASE A NEW REFUNDABLE FARE TICKET. --- IV.AFTER DEPARTURE - WHEN THERE IS NO CHANGE TO ORIGIN/DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS. --- A.CHANGES MAY BE MADE ON/PRIOR TO TICKETED DEPARTURE DATE OF EACH FLIGHT FOR THE CHANGE FEE WITHOUT REGARD TO ADVANCE RSVN PROVIDED THE CHANGE MEETS ALL OTHER FARE RULES. --- B.WHEN THE CHANGE VIOLATES THE TICKETED FARE RULES THE FOLLOWING OPTIONS ARE AVAILABLE AND THE LOWEST SOLUTION WILL APPLY. --- B1.REPRICE THE CHANGED CONTINUING/RETURN FARE COMPONENTS WITH A COMBINABLE NONREFUNDABLE CURRENT FARE. CURRENT FARE MUST BE EQUAL TO OR HIGHER THAN THE ORIGINAL TICKETED FARE VALUE FOR THE CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS. ALL FARE RULES OF BOTH THE RETAINED FARE OF THE UNCHANGED FARE COMPONENT AND THE NEW FARE OF THE CHANGED FARE COMPONENT MUST BE MET. THE ADVANCE PURCHASE IS MEASURED BETWEEN THE REISSUE DATE AND THE DEPARTURE DATE OF THE PRICEABLE UNIT. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE CHANGE FEE MUST BE COLLECTED. --- B2.PRICE THE FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS USING HISTORICAL ONE WAY FARES. PRICE THE UNFLOWN FARE COMPONENTS USING ONE WAY CURRENT FARES. COMPARE THE TOTAL FROM THE ORIGINAL TICKET TO THE NEW TOTAL OF THE FLOWN AND UNFLOWN FARE COMPONENTS. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE CHANGE FEE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE CHANGE FEE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA US ONLY. --- V.AFTER DEPARTURE - CHANGES TO CONTINUING/RETURN FLIGHTS WHEN THERE IS A CHANGE TO ORIGIN/ DESTINATION OR STOPOVERS. --- A.PRICE THE FLOWN FARE COMPONENTS USING HISTORICAL ONE WAY FARES. PRICE THE UNFLOWN FARE COMPONENTS USING ONE WAY CURRENT FARES. COMPARE THE TOTAL FROM THE ORIGINAL TICKET TO THE NEW TOTAL OF THE FLOWN AND UNFLOWN FARE COMPONENTS. ANY DIFFERENCE IN FARES PLUS THE CHANGE FEE MUST BE COLLECTED. IF THE REPRICE RESULTS IN A LOWER FARE THE DIFFERENCE IN FARES LESS THE CHANGE FEE MAY BE RETURNED IN THE FORM OF A NONREFUNDABLE TRAVEL VOUCHER VALID FOR TRAVEL VIA US ONLY. --- VI.IF THE TICKET BEING EXCHANGED COMBINES MORE THAN ONE FARE TYPE THE MOST RSTRICTIVE RULES APPLY TO THE ENTIRE TICKET -EXCEPT- IF EACH FARE TYPE IS PRICEABLE INDEPENDENTLY APPLY EACH FARE TYPES PENALTY RULES INDEPENDENTLY TO THE FLIGHTS TICKETED AT THAT FARE. --- VII.THE TICKET MUST BE REISSUED - CHANGE FEE AND ANY ADDITIONAL FARE MUST BE PAID AT TIME OF CHANGE --- VIII.-STANDBY- STANDBY ON TICKETED DAYS OF TRAVEL IS PERMITTED FOR A USD 25.00 NONREFUNDABLE FEE. ALL FARE RULES OF TICKETED FARE MUST BE MET INCLUDING FLIGHT AND TIME SPECIFIC PROVISIONS. IX.AFTER EACH TICKETED DEPARTURE DATE - NO CHANGES PERMITTED - TICKET HAS NO VALUE AND STANDBY IS NOT PERMITTED.

RES/TKTG
 

dinosaur

Member
Aug 25, 2002
52
0
Regardless of what was on the web site, the _fact_ is
US _will_ exchange non-refundable tickets for tickets
with refundable fares.

Res: See N*CSBRF 19JUL

--Dino
 

tadjr

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
3,511
100
TPA
www.airlineforums.com
This is a perfect example of why fares need to be simplified and rationalized. If the rez agents (and I know the counter agents) cant figure out what to do, how do we expect to all be doing the same and correct thing? Who has time to read two pages of fare rules just to relay all the pertinent info to the passenger while being worried about talk time or the line that is now snaking out the door while someone decides if this is the type of fare they want?
Who says the fares need to be roundtrip? Offer a one way nonrefundable thats more than 1/2 the roundtrip nonrefundable and people who are only going one way will think they're getting a bargain and we can sell the return for the same thing. More money selling two tickets instead of one!
I'm waiting for some new and innovative ideas from our million dollar management team.
 

Dea Certe

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
889
0
tadjr said: "I''m waiting for some new and innovative ideas from our million dollar management team."

tadjr,

We are all! So far, their "best" idea is to keep the 5% War deferral pay. I realize turning US around is like trying to do a U-turn in 18 wheeler but I really expected more from the "bright and talented" team.


Dea
 

KCFlyer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
10,966
1,390
www.usaviation.com
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On 4/28/2003 2:24:36 PM dinosaur wrote:


They should. This accesses the Cutomer Service Briefing for last July 19th which reads as follows:

"Effective 17Jul02. Nonrefundable tickets may be exchanged for refundable tickets before or after origination according to fare rule. This change applies to both domestic and international fares.

- The total value of the new ticket is non-refundable.
- A waiver code is no longer necessary.

Waiver code -Q- will no longer be valid since it is unnecessary.

Questions may be directed to the Customer Service Help Desk at ***-****"

That''s it. The $100.00 change fee, and the midnight ''use it, change it, or lose it'' still apply.

I checked all of the CSBRF''s to date from July, and none of the 27Aug changes recinded this, contrary to what a previous employee thinks.

When ws the last time they wouldn''t let you do this?

----------------​

If you really want to simplify things, why not change these paragraphs to this single sentence:

Check the current avaialable fare and charge the difference between that fare and the fare that the customer has already paid.

No penalty fees, no wiaver codes or anything like that - just good old "straight shooting". Even if your customer bought a super duper advance purchase fare, if they are going to change it, they are willing to pay more - why add another needless hundred bucks to the mix?
 

TomBascom

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
660
0
3A
www.greenfieldtech.com
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On 4/28/2003 11:45:20 AM dinosaur wrote:

Regardless of what was on the web site, the _fact_ is
US _will_ exchange non-refundable tickets for tickets
with refundable fares.

Res: See N*CSBRF 19JUL
----------------​

You could have fooled this customer. If I quote "N*CSBRF" to reservations the next time I''m changing a NR ticket will they know what I''m talking about and act accordingly?
 

dinosaur

Member
Aug 25, 2002
52
0
----------------


You could have fooled this customer. If I quote "N*CSBRF" to reservations the next time I'm changing a NR ticket will they know what I'm talking about and act accordingly?

----------------

They should. This accesses the Cutomer Service Briefing for last July 19th which reads as follows:

"Effective 17Jul02. Nonrefundable tickets may be exchanged for refundable tickets before or after origination according to fare rule. This change applies to both domestic and international fares.

- The total value of the new ticket is non-refundable.
- A waiver code is no longer necessary.

Waiver code -Q- will no longer be valid since it is unnecessary.

Questions may be directed to the Customer Service Help Desk at ***-****"

That's it. The $100.00 change fee, and the midnight 'use it, change it, or lose it' still apply.

I checked all of the CSBRF's to date from July, and none of the 27Aug changes recinded this, contrary to what a previous employee thinks.

When was the last time they wouldn't let you do this?
 

TomBascom

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
660
0
3A
www.greenfieldtech.com
----------------
You could have fooled this customer. If I quote "N*CSBRF" to reservations the next time I''m changing a NR ticket will they know what I''m talking about and act accordingly?
----------------​

They should. This accesses the Cutomer Service Briefing for last July 19th which reads as follows:

"Effective 17Jul02. Nonrefundable tickets may be exchanged for refundable tickets before or after origination according to fare rule. This change applies to both domestic and international fares.

- The total value of the new ticket is non-refundable.
- A waiver code is no longer necessary.

Waiver code -Q- will no longer be valid since it is unnecessary.

Questions may be directed to the Customer Service Help Desk at ***-****"

That''s it. The $100.00 change fee, and the midnight ''use it, change it, or lose it'' still apply.

I checked all of the CSBRF''s to date from July, and none of the 27Aug changes recinded this, contrary to what a previous employee thinks.

When was the last time they wouldn''t let you do this?


Thursday.

Although we may be talking past each other... I read:


------------
On 4/28/2003 11:45:20 AM dinosaur wrote:

Regardless of what was on the web site, the _fact_ is
US _will_ exchange non-refundable tickets for tickets
with refundable fares.
------------

To mean that I should be able to apply funds from a non-refundable ticket to a new ticket which is refundable.

But the rule that you''re quoting (and all past practice that I''ve experienced) is that if any dollars that you apply from one ticket to another have ever participated in a NR ticket that will result in your new ticket becoming NR -- sort of like Cinderella at midnight.

Maybe the emphasis is on fares rather than refundable>? Meaning that I can purchase that fare and it inherits all of the fun restrictions that a NR fare has? Gee, that''s a real pleasant experience -- just the sort of thing I''d like to ask for more of...
 

KCFlyer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
10,966
1,390
www.usaviation.com
----------------
On 4/28/2003 6:15:26 PM dinosaur wrote:


Although the new fare may be $X.XX more, the rule of the original ticket still apply, because it''s non-refundable.

Your two bazillon new fare, although a -refundable- fare, if you had bought it that way, is non-refundable because of the reissue of the NR original ticket.

PM me if you have more questions, please.


----------------

Ludicrious. You''re telling the customer that you just charged a hundred dollars over the full coach fare(because they had the audacity to book an advance fare) that their ticket is still non refundable, even though you had the use of a portion of that money for over 21 days before they "upgraded" it to a full fare. And you guys wonder why the general public doesn''t take pity on the airline industry. I''ve said it before and I''ll say it again - the motto of ANY of the "big six" airlines should be: We DARE you to buy a ticket.​
 

dinosaur

Member
Aug 25, 2002
52
0
------------




To mean that I should be able to apply funds from a non-refundable ticket to a new ticket which is refundable.


But the rule that you''re quoting (and all past practice that I''ve experienced) is that if any dollars that you apply from one ticket to another have ever participated in a NR ticket that will result in your new ticket becoming NR -- sort of like Cinderella at midnight.


Maybe the emphasis is on fares rather than refundable>? Meaning that I can purchase that fare and it inherits all of the fun restrictions that a NR fare has? Gee, that''s a real pleasant experience -- just the sort of thing I''d like to ask for more of...

----------------

The rules of the fare apply. I''ll try to explain as best I can.

Say you bought a 14 day non-refundable ticket from MHT to DFW for 300.00 for May 29th to return whenever. Lo and behold, something happens and you have to change it to May 28th on the 27th. You''ll be charged the difference of the fares, the change fee and you''ll most likely get your upgrade to the front cabin.

Although the new fare may be $X.XX more, the rule of the original ticket still apply, because it''s non-refundable.

Your two bazillon new fare, although a -refundable- fare, if you had bought it that way, is non-refundable because of the reissue of the NR original ticket.

PM me if you have more questions, please.