Not sure what to call it

[MachPi]

Catholicism is the largest faith in the country with (according to the US Census) over 159,506,000 adults out of an adult population of 207,980,000

That's got to be the most suspect statistic I've seen anywhere in a long time. You're saying that the US Census says that almost three quarters of the US adult population are catholic? Might want to fact-check that lil nugget, Bob.

I'm a deist myself, so I won't take you round the corner and lay some brimstone all over you, but people! If I don't read at least one fact in the next five minutes, the terrorists have already won.

 

[FWAAA]

That's got to be the most suspect statistic I've seen anywhere in a long time. You're saying that the US Census says that almost three quarters of the US adult population are catholic? Might want to fact-check that lil nugget, Bob.

[post="227522"][/post]​

Your instincts are correct. Not even the Roman Catholic Chuch alleges those kind of numbers. Mr Owens simply misread the chart, and his usual skepticism didn't kick in. The 159 million number is for Christians as a whole, and that number (159,506,000) appear one row above the actual number of self-reported Catholics, which is actually only 50,873,000 out of 207,980,000 adults. Not quite 25%. Here's the chart:

http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/03statab/pop.pdf

Funny how he accuses me of posting misleading numbers and accuses me of trying to "baffle" everyone with facts. :down:

In fact, the US Census Bureau has this to say about religion:

The Bureau of the Census collected information in the Census of Religious Bodies from 1906-1936. This information was obtained from religious organizations.

Public Law 94-521 prohibits us from asking a question on religious affiliation on a mandatory basis; therefore, the Bureau of the Census is not the source for information on religion.

Some statistics on religion can be found in the 2003 Statistical Abstract of the United States, tables 79-82. These tables are in Adobe Acrobat's Portable Document Format (PDF). To view PDF files, you will need Acrobat Reader which is available for free from Adobe.

http://www.census.gov/prod/www/religion.htm

The one link provided by the Census reveals the following:

The American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) 2001 was based on a
random digit-dialed telephone survey of 50,281 American residential households in the continental U.S.A (48 states). Respondents were asked to describe themselves in terms of religion with an open-ended question. Interviewers did not prompt or offer a suggested list of potential answers. Moreover, the self description of respondents was not based on whether established religious bodies, institutions, churches, mosques or synagogues considered them to be members. Quite the contrary, the survey sought to determine whether the respondents themselves regarded themselves as adherents of a religious community. Subjective rather than objective standards of religious identification were tapped by the surveys.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/03statab/pop.pdf

 

[av8trxx]

"There is no seperation of church and sate in the US constitution."
And where is "God" mentioned in the US Constitution?
While I dont deny that there was Judeo-Christian influence on our laws that is not the same as saying that the founding fathers wished to make religion a requirement.
The founding fathers were clear that there should be a seperation of church and state. Freedom of religion is also freedom from it.

[post="227320"][/post]​

Interesting topic. James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement:

"We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

So, it seems the authors didn't even consider 'freedom FROM religion' if their intent was to govern according to the 10 commandments. Think about it from their perspective: Could they have ever imagined the fervor over religion & gov't today when 52 of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies? Probably not coming from their religious backgrounds.

So even though GOD may not be mentioned by name in the US constituion, all 50 states acknowledge God in their constitutions:

Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama, invoking the
favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following
Constitution.

Alaska 1956, Preamble. We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to
those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land.

Arizona 1911, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to
Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution.

Arkansas 1874, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful
to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government.

California 1879, Preamble. We, the People of the State of California,
grateful to almighty God for our freedom.

Colorado 1876, Preamble. We, the people of Colorado with profound reverence
for the Supreme Ruler of Universe.

Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with
gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy.

Delaware 1897, Preamble. Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature,
the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the
dictates of their consciences.

Florida 1885, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to
Almighty God for our constitutional liberty. establish this Constitution.

Georgia 1777, Preamble. We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection
and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution.

Hawaii 1959, Preamble. We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine
Guidance establish this Constitution.

Idaho 1889, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings.

Illinois 1870, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful
to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He
hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our
endeavors.

Indiana 1851, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to
Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose our form of
government.

Iowa 1857, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the
Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our
dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings establish this
Constitution.

Kansas 1859, Preamble. We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God
for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution.

Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth of grateful to
Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties.

Louisiana 1921, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Louisiana,
grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties
we enjoy.

Maine 1820, Preamble. We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful
hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us
an opportunity and imploring His aid and direction.

Maryland 1776, Preamble. We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful
to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty.

Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. We...the people of Massachusetts,
acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of
the Universe ...in the course of His Providence, an opportunity and
devoutly imploring His direction.

Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful
to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom establish this Constitution.

Minnesota, 1857, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Minnesota,
grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to
perpetuate its blessings Mississippi 1890, Preamble. We, the people of
Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking
His blessing on our work.

Missouri 1845, Preamble. We, the people of Missouri, with profound
reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His
goodness establish this Constitution.

Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God
for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution.

Nebraska 1875, Preamble. We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our
freedom establish this Constitution.

Nevada 1864, Preamble. We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom establish this Constitution.

New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. Every individual has a natural
and inalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own
conscience.

New Jersey 1844, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New Jersey,
grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so
long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.

New Mexico 1911, Preamble. We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of liberty.

New York 1846, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New York grateful
to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.

North Carolina 1868, Preamble. We the people of the State of North
Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our
civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence
upon Him for the continuance of those.

North Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain.

Ohio 1852, Preamble. We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to
Almighty God for our freedom to secure its blessings and to promote our common.

Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to
secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty establish this.

Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2. All men shall be secure
in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of
their consciences.

Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble. We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to
Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly
invoking His guidance.

Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island
grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath
so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing.

South Carolina, 1778, Preamble. We, the people of the State of South
Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this
Constitution.

South Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to
Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties establish this.

Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible
right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience.

Texas 1845, Preamble. We the People of the Republic of Texas,
acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.

Utah 1896, Preamble. Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we
establish this Constitution .

Vermont 1777, Preamble. Whereas all government ought to enable the
individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other
blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man.

Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI ... Religion, or the Duty which we owe
our Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty
of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other.

Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington,
grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain
this Constitution.

West Virginia 1872, Preamble. Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the
blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West
Virginia, reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God.

Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty
God for our freedom, domestic tranquility.

Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to
God for our civil, political, and religious liberties establish this
Constitution.

 

[MachPi]

And yet it's interesting that "Jesus" isn't in any of those preambles. Not a one. In other words, no state out of the fifty calls itself a christian state.

 

[mweiss]

Looks like Virginia could...

 

[MachPi]

Looks like Virginia could...

[post="241347"][/post]​

Oh, you're right. I was lazy; I just searched for "Jesus."

 

[diogenes]

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Every citizen has the free excercise of the religion of their choice. That would seem to include little-to-no religion.

The church has the freedom to say what it will, and enforce it's doctrine. In other words, if you are in major violation of the creed, the church can show you the door.

But even if they do, you are still an American citizen, with all rights and privileges.

From a theological viewpoint, every meaningful conversation I've ever had with those far wiser than myself, answers the question "why are we here" with "the excercise of free will" - note the similiarities to the first amendment.

As the Creator AND the Constitution grant free will, so should we all.