With the recent unionization of Fleet Service workers at Continental and the merger of CAL and UAL who will be the the union for the combined group? CAL now has the IBT, UAL has the IAM. The mechanics at both Airlines have IBT. That would seem to be the better choice, have you guys heard anything?
Now What?
- Thread starter Bob Owens
- Start date
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
It should prove an interesting fight.
Its worth pointing out, there are currently two card drives underway for the Mechanics at UAL, IAM & AMFA.
While its unfortunate that we can't seem to agree on who we wish to represent us, its clear we want out of the IBT.
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
I would think the most democratic of the two would be the better choice.
I have to admit that the TA at CAL was disappointing to say the least, perhaps our (TWU/AA)TA set them back. I figured that they made all those promises at UAL, did a good job at UPS but lost their guys to AMFA at SWA that they would want to prove that the IBT is the best by topping SWA.
Hopefully CAL will reject it.
Larrs
Member
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Not sure where Thirdseat works but from what I see and hear the only people that want the IAM at UA is the IAM reps trying to save their overpaid jobs. Hopefully the IAM wont make any more unnecessary concessions until the IBT takes over.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
I work in SFO and the drive for the IAM here is being led by a group made up of both former IAM, and AMFA officers and reps (all floor mechanics at present).
The IBT lied to get themselves on the property, and the list of those lies grows longer with each passing day, I can't speak for Ramp or PCE sentiment, but as far as mechanics go, be it IAM or AMFA, the teamsters will be removed.
Within the last 10 years the mechs have tried:
1. IAM
2. IAM-M
3. AMFA
4. IBT
Obviously none of the above have worked out for you. Have you guys considered forming an "association" within your own group and only within UA? You'd have much more control over your destiny. Isn't that what some pilot groups have? Just a thought!
IAM? Really? Didnt that union lose nearly half its membership between two conventions? Other than the fact that its a fraction of the size and doesnt represent many Airline Mechanics (other than USAIR-the lowest paid in the industry) what do they have to offer that the IBT doesnt?
The IBT represents UPS, the highest paid airline mechanics, IAM represents USAIR, the lowest paid. At least with the IBT you could say they arent doing their best, with the IAM you would not want their best.
I am told that the IAM has told the organizers that they would have By-laws/Agreement similar to AMFA. In
other words the ability to vote out officers not doing their job. Vote on all LOA's. I have not seen anything
in writing yet. Now is not the time for a union change. We should become one after the merger and then
work to get rid of the IBT!!! I hear promises all the time. Not one union has kept any. AMFA didn't have a
chance. IMO a card drive at this time is a waste. If the IBT comes back with S##t then we should vote no!!!
The IBT knows that some of the membership will take any raise no matter how big or small. We need to hold
out. I hope the CAL mechs turn theirs down.
other words the ability to vote out officers not doing their job. Vote on all LOA's. I have not seen anything
in writing yet. Now is not the time for a union change. We should become one after the merger and then
work to get rid of the IBT!!! I hear promises all the time. Not one union has kept any. AMFA didn't have a
chance. IMO a card drive at this time is a waste. If the IBT comes back with S##t then we should vote no!!!
The IBT knows that some of the membership will take any raise no matter how big or small. We need to hold
out. I hope the CAL mechs turn theirs down.
"In other words the ability to vote out officers not doing their job. Vote on all LOA's."
And would anyone believe them? The ability to vote out officers is the biggest joke yet from the IAM. The membership in district 141 tried that, here's the result. The Department of Labor is taking this one on.
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/illinois/ilndce/1:2010cv04467/245521
VOTE ON ALL LOA'S?
That's even a bigger joke. Ask US fleet how their dependability policy is working out. The IAM let the company WRITE up a new policy and NEVER took it to the membership for a vote. Ask UA ramp and customer service how their dependability policy is working for them. The IAM let the company CHANGE their policy without a vote.
By the way, congrats to the IBT for how they handled dependability with the mechs. The envy of all UA employs. They just worked with the company to erase all discipline for you guys July 31st. Andy why? How did the IBT put it? IN THE SPIRIT OF COOPERATION BETWEEN THE IBT AND THE COMPANY! The UA ramp is getting very interested in the IBT. Customer service is done with IAM also, hoping for IBT. Strength in numbers. With the new UA being the largest airline and if all groups go with IBT, then for once maybe we can bring the "unity" back into the union. No more of what the IAM (spurned lover) did to the AMFA NW mechs.
I use to believe any union was better than no union. Not anymore. Having NO union is way better than IAM.
And would anyone believe them? The ability to vote out officers is the biggest joke yet from the IAM. The membership in district 141 tried that, here's the result. The Department of Labor is taking this one on.
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/illinois/ilndce/1:2010cv04467/245521
VOTE ON ALL LOA'S?
That's even a bigger joke. Ask US fleet how their dependability policy is working out. The IAM let the company WRITE up a new policy and NEVER took it to the membership for a vote. Ask UA ramp and customer service how their dependability policy is working for them. The IAM let the company CHANGE their policy without a vote.
By the way, congrats to the IBT for how they handled dependability with the mechs. The envy of all UA employs. They just worked with the company to erase all discipline for you guys July 31st. Andy why? How did the IBT put it? IN THE SPIRIT OF COOPERATION BETWEEN THE IBT AND THE COMPANY! The UA ramp is getting very interested in the IBT. Customer service is done with IAM also, hoping for IBT. Strength in numbers. With the new UA being the largest airline and if all groups go with IBT, then for once maybe we can bring the "unity" back into the union. No more of what the IAM (spurned lover) did to the AMFA NW mechs.
I use to believe any union was better than no union. Not anymore. Having NO union is way better than IAM.
Don't get me wrong. I don't trust the IAM or IBT as far as I can spit. I certainly wouldn't turn my back on them.
We must have a union. At least with UA managemnet. I hear CAL management is much more employee friendly.
Time will tell. I hope we can merge work groups without to much fighting.
We must have a union. At least with UA managemnet. I hear CAL management is much more employee friendly.
Time will tell. I hope we can merge work groups without to much fighting.
Good luck with the card drive in SFO but as far as Line Maintenance is concerned the IAM will never get back on the property representing AC Maintenance. Although the IBT hasn't lived up to all their promises, they have not yet betrayed our membership the way the IAM has (mechanics loss of receipt and dispatch, ramp service dependability vote to name a few).
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
As far as the IBT goes, while they may have a dedicated following at UPS, consider that they were removed from SWA immediately following a ratified contract. Now the question becomes why would the SWA mechanics do this? It turns out that among a host of other complaints based on poor representation, the tipping point was centered on the senior IBT negotiator (the same individual is leading UALs negotiations) cutting a deal with SWA management in a hotel room which reduced/eliminated a portion of retro pay that had been used to sell the agreement.
It is precisely this sort of back door dealing, and a distinct LACK of representation that has driven the mechanics at UAL to once again seek a change in representation. Just a few examples from UAL:
The IBT promised to reopen our CBA early - They couldn't
The IBT promised to secure a defined benefit pension plan outside of sec:6 negotiations - They couldn't
The IBT promised to stop blended work (UAL mechanics & venders working together) - They couldn't
The IBT promised to stop furloughs - nearly 1,000 AMTs have been furloughed since the IBT was certified
The IBT promised to protect our work - several east coast stations are now closed for maintenance, or utilize venders.
The IBT promised aggressive grievance handling - here in SFO, AMFA passed 269 grievances to the IBT. After just 18 months on the property, the number of outstanding grievances had risen to over 420, this number only recently was reduced when the IBT cut a deal on a new attendance policy with UAL (that the membership has yet to see) in exchange for UAL pulling all current disciplinary letters in relation to attendance.
The IBT promised no secret LOAs without membership ratification - The IBT has written several LOAs, altering our contract, depriving the membership of certain CBA protections, changing overtime, and a host of others, ALL without membership ratification.
This is just a sampling of what IBT representation is like at UAL, it is more than obvious now to our members that they lied their way onto the property during their organizing campaign.
Representation is about more than just a dollar sign. It is in that representation the IBT is an absolute failure.
The IAM.
The skepticism is understandable considering the IAMs history at UAL, but it is not the same IAM we would be returning to should a card drive prove successful.
When the organizing team in SFO got together it wasn't decided at the onset the path we would choose.
Made up of both former IAM and AMFA supporters, the discussion was centered on the fact that we couldn't stay with the IBT. After lengthy debate, it was decided that if we wanted to bring the civil war among the mechanics at UAL to a close and truly provide a unified front, the IAM gave us the best chance.
While its not widely known, before the IBT raid at UAL, AMFA (led by a UAL mechanic contingent) held preliminary discussions with the IAM on affiliation, while these discussions failed to lead to affiliation at the time, even then the benefits discussed proved compelling.
When the members of the organizing committee met with IAM Grand Lodge Representatives, the discussions were frank.
All agreed that the IAMs mechanic history at UAL would prove problematic. That said, the IAM representatives fully understood this and were more than willing to address these issues head on. The first being, that the assurances of the IAM would be in writing and signed. The IBT had lied their way onto the property with assurances and unsigned letters and fliers, the membership would not accept anything proffered in the same manner again.
The mechanics would create their own District Lodge. This would not be the pseudo District 141-M which was supposedly created for mechanics but peopled with appointees. The new Mechanics District would be crafted from the ground up. A completely new set of District Bylaws, focused on Democracy and Accountability. Complete with checks and balances as well the ability to elect and recall all officers and representatives.
With these same concerns in mind the IAM also agreed to 4 UAL mechanics Local Lodges at SFO, DEN, ORD, and IAD. These, just as the District Lodge, will write their own Bylaws, and elect their own officers. As to the question of CAL, if the drive proves successful mechanic Locals centered on CAL hub stations would also be created.
The AMFA
While our committee chose to pursue a course with the IAM, it should be known we have the utmost respect for those supporting AMFA. It was not an easy choice by any means, but in the end when we weighed the task at hand, the IAM was chosen.
Speaking for myself only, I am cautiously optimistic. We'll see what happens.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
As opposed to what?
The IBT and their appointed Business Agents?
As for District 141, the issue hasn't been resolved, but at least they HAD the election. If the charges prove warranted it will be overturned. You certainly don't want to get into a debate about election fraud do you? The Local 986 Business Agent for UAL mechanics was just caught in this very thing.
Its also again worth noting, the UAL mechanics would NOT be part of District 141. We will have our own District and Locals.
That said, if you truly wish to engage in a "sins of one is a sins of all" discussions .... well lets just say the IBTs history is a "tad" more storied than the IAM. Do as you will.
PS: The attendance LOA the IBT signed with UAL, which you seem so giddy about, is a concern of those of us who actually live under it. The company didn't just surrender ALL attendance discipline and receive nothing in return. Additionally, if you work for UAL, you know full well the company has never needed a LOA to remove discipline, oh and just so you know, this attendance LOA was signed WITHOUT a membership vote.
Then there's this cryptic vague phrase in the LOA that still has not been quantified by the IBT:
""...United Services leadership and IBT leadership agree to proactively, cooperatively and
compassionately reduce employee absenteeism to an industry-competitive rate...""
The new policy comes out in October, should be interesting.
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
We'll see.
MM here in SFO is signing, seems all the LOAs without a vote(including our most recent attendance) is indeed having an affect.
Its also apparent that DENMM isn't happy as thats the nexus of the AMFA drive.
It seems the IBTs not the "be all, end all" they were supposed to be
