Obamacare Update!

[PHXConx]

The polls linked indicate there is a majority support.  I believe there would be a greater number who support if they knew what single payer/universal care was.  Several polls indicate that many people do not know the difference,  I know what they are.  We may have differing opinions on the benefits but I know what they are.

i bet you there wouldnt be...
 
you tell them its the same thing the VA has and they may think twice...
 
its why im against it, i lived under single payer in the military sliced bread is definitely better 

 

[Ms Tree]

It's not the same as VA. The VA is govt run. Single payer has to do with revenue nothing to do with the supply side.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

And polls? You don't believe they "have a clue"? Ever think that maybe, just maybe,they do? And you, yes you, may not "have a clue"?

I don't believe in polls either, just saying.

 

[Dog Wonder]

I don't believe in polls either.

And polls don't believe in you.

 

[SparrowHawk]

What does that have to with anything. We have elections every few years. Are those majorities wrong?

Geez louise.

Hitler was elected as well. So I think it has plenty to do with it. Just because you and your crony capitalist backers can fool 51% of the population doesn't make their actions moral or ethical anymore than standing in a garage would make me a car.

 

[Ms Tree]

 

 you are talking about how great another country is, your choice is if you dont like it here is to move... not force us to be like the place you want to be...  
 
its not our dream to live under that system... 
 
i dont understand why people get insulted when they sit there say how great another country is and those not in that country say well move... if i live someplace i cant stand i move, i dont force my neighbors to my whims... that takes some serious audacity.  

Same answer as before. I want to make our system better and I cannot afford to move out so Im staying. You are trying to force me to keep a broken system here in the US. Whats the difference? People probably said the same thing about civil rights and womens rights. The US is about change and we are going to change it. The existing health care system is broken and defective. It will change. Its just a matter of time. Similar to equal rights. The laws are changing. Those of us who supported the changes were told to leave as well if we did not like it. We chose to stay and fight. It will change. If you do not like it, you can move.

By the way it is, other countries not another country. There are many countries which have a superior health care system to our own.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Yeah we've seen the end results of the government "Making it better". Indian Health Service, Veterans Health Services are single payer systems that are abject FAILURES.
 
We also know that those on MediCare or MediCaid have in general poorer outcomes then those with private health insurance.
 
What to make it faster, better, cheaper? Get government out as in 100% out of the market and allow those who actually understand business run healthcare. 

 

[Ms Tree]

 

Hitler was elected as well. So I think it has plenty to do with it. Just because you and your crony capitalist backers can fool 51% of the population doesn't make their actions moral or ethical anymore than standing in a garage would make me a car.

I'm sorry. I was not aware that you were the arbiter of what was and was not ethical and moral. Is this an elected position or designated by God? Shall we just cede all power to you now so that you can make all these decisions?

 

[Ms Tree]

 

Yeah we've seen the end results of the government "Making it better". Indian Health Service, Veterans Health Services are single payer systems that are abject FAILURES.
 
We also know that those on MediCare or MediCaid have in general poorer outcomes then those with private health insurance.
 
What to make it faster, better, cheaper? Get government out as in 100% out of the market and allow those who actually understand business run healthcare. 

No they are not. You and others can claim they are single payer all you want. That does not make it so.

Is that soley due to the care or do you think there might be a chance of out side influences on their health in general? That's like saying the match is what kills the person, not the cigarette.

Because having a business take care of my health makes so much more sense. Not like there is a conflict of interest there huh? Do you have a single example of such a health care system working?

 

[SparrowHawk]

 

I'm sorry. I was not aware that you were the arbiter of what was and was not ethical and moral. Is this an elected position or designated by God? Shall we just cede all power to you now so that you can make all these decisions?

Be snarky tomorrow,
 
When faced with a decision or moral, ethical dilemma I run it through one simple filter. "Does this law or action provide the Citizen of the Republic more or less Liberty"
 
To date I've seen no evidence to suggest that US Single Payer systems have improved outcomes or lowered cost. In fact the opposite has happened. Cost for healthcare have risen steadily as the government threw more money at it. To the tune of 700% since Medicare while the general rate of inflation was around 196%.
 
Sure trust the government, that concept worked so well for the Indians..

 

[Ms Tree]

 

Be snarky tomorrow,
 
When faced with a decision or moral, ethical dilemma I run it through one simple filter. "Does this law or action provide the Citizen of the Republic more or less Liberty"
 
To date I've seen no evidence to suggest that US Single Payer systems have improved outcomes or lowered cost. In fact the opposite has happened. Cost for healthcare have risen steadily as the government threw more money at it. To the tune of 700% since Medicare while the general rate of inflation was around 196%.
 
Sure trust the government, that concept worked so well for the Indians..

Just making a point. Just because you believe that something is unethical or immoral does not make it so.

Government and society by definition restrict liberty.

I have not either. Then again I have not seen any single payer system in the US so I have nothing to look at. I have seen and read about single payer system in other countries that are very successful.

Because the history of the Native Americans in the US is so similar to the health care in the US? Our goal with the NA was to kill them or assimilate them. The goal was never to respect or honor them.

 

[SparrowHawk]

If you are treated by the VA or IHS the only entity footing the bill is the US Government. Ergo, Single Payer. 
 
MediCare- Government age restricted Health Insurance again with the ONLY payer being the Federal Government.
 
Dance all you like, in the end the Federal Government writes the check with money confiscated from your wages to pay for something that according to the original intent of the Founders is not within the scope of the Federal Government. Coercion & confiscation is not compassion. Compassion is YOU emptying bed pans as a volunteer at the local hospital. We are our brothers keeper 

 

[Ms Tree]

Fed funding is not the only requirement for single payer. There are other facets.

Capitalism and health care do not mix. Never have never will.

 

[signals]

  Same answer as before. I want to make our system better and I cannot afford to move out so Im staying. You are trying to force me to keep a broken system here in the US. Whats the difference? People probably said the same thing about civil rights and womens rights. The US is about change and we are going to change it. The existing health care system is broken and defective. It will change. Its just a matter of time. Similar to equal rights. The laws are changing. Those of us who supported the changes were told to leave as well if we did not like it. We chose to stay and fight. It will change. If you do not like it, you can move.

By the way it is, other countries not another country. There are many countries which have a superior health care system to our own.

That's funny coming from someone who has a RED passport from Europe. You yourself said that if the going gets tough, you're prepared to run!

Now it's another ball game? Hmmm...get your own facts straight!

 

[signals]

What does that have to with anything. We have elections every few years. Are those majorities wrong?

Geez louise.

Actually we have elections every November.