Other suitors come out of the woods after AA

[EastCheats]

Are you trying to use it in ref w/ your fight against usapa? Or are you saying it was ok in the case in FL ?

The West is standing ground in our fight with USAPA. I think it is unlikely that a merger is going to happen until this is settled in court. We could move on if a certain pilot group would comply with a process they agreed to participate. Until then all this talk about AA is moot.

I think there has been a rush to judgement in the FL case. I've only heard one side of the story.

 

[usa1]

British Airways and Iberia is considering buying a stake in Fort Worth-based American Airlines, its bankrupt partner in the OneWorld alliance.
The Dallas Morning News reported that International Airlines Group would consider helping American to fend off any unwanted takeover attempts by competitors such as US Airways Group Inc.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/morning_call/2012/03/british-airways-may-pursue-american.html

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2012/03/26/39983/walsh+ponders+bid+for+american+airlines.html

 

[AAviator]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/morning_call/2012/03/british-airways-may-pursue-american.html

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2012/03/26/39983/walsh+ponders+bid+for+american+airlines.html

Last sentence in second article:
" However, it’s doubtful US Airways would have the resources to take over American."

Interesting..

 

[ggiby]

Last sentence in second article:
" However, it’s doubtful US Airways would have the resources to take over American."

Interesting..

Underestimating the ability of Lcc when it comes to raising $..... They got it all together fast with the last one.... and not one dime came from LCC

 

[AAviator]

Underestimating the ability of Lcc when it comes to raising $..... They got it all together fast with the last one.... and not one dime came from LCC

Here's the last one:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/701345/000095012307000262/y28825exv99w2.htm

What is LCC stock value today?

LCC was hoping to roll it all into a ball (with a bunch of -new- debt), and give the creditors 49% equity in the new "Gem".

Kirby is right he needs labor on board.





Good luck with that one....




Looking forward to your reply...

 

[Zone5]

The West is standing ground in our fight with USAPA. I think it is unlikely that a merger is going to happen until this is settled in court. We could move on if a certain pilot group would comply with a process they agreed to participate. Until then all this talk about AA is moot.

I think there has been a rush to judgement in the FL case. I've only heard one side of the story.

Don't bet on it. If the "power" players want to do a deal, it will happen. If that means selling off Phoenix to say Delta (who could use the West feed across the Pacific) or whomever the highest bidder may turn out to be, so be it. The result, instant blank sheet of paper on an SLI agreement with AA and US, plus cash from the sale of AWA to throw in the pot.

Stranger things have and probably will happen.


seajay

 

[Phoenix]

Last sentence in second article:
" However, it’s doubtful US Airways would have the resources to take over American."

Interesting..

The article is more puff supporting an eventual merger. Read the whole article...

IAG has money..
BA has a relationship with AA that they expected to end in a merger...
Delta wants to play but regulators would block it...
USAir wants to play and would get smooth sailing on regulators.. But lacks the money..

The problem is AA merger is inevitable but you the reader have to help out the author to figure out how to solve the problem for everyone (in the article) to be happy.

Soon enough the answer will be obvious to everyone (the goal of these puff pieces).

 

[WorldTraveler]

Don't bet on it. If the "power" players want to do a deal, it will happen. If that means selling off Phoenix to say Delta (who could use the West feed across the Pacific) or whomever the highest bidder may turn out to be, so be it. The result, instant blank sheet of paper on an SLI agreement with AA and US, plus cash from the sale of AWA to throw in the pot.

Stranger things have and probably will happen.


seajay

Nice someone brought out the LCC takeover proposal of DL- because it confirms that it was based on borrowing $5B in order to pay off the unsecured creditors. There is no reason to think that AA's unsecured creditors would settle for much less... the idea that any banker would loan anyone $5B to buy AA in the current economic environment is a stretch at best. If it involves another US airline, a deal can only be done on the basis of stock - and again LCC has the lowest market capitalization of any of the large jet airlines in the US.
.
And why would DL want to buy PHX in order to allow US to buy AA? If DL buys anything other than parts of AA, it will be AS because a SEA hub makes a whole lot more sense than one in the SW US - which is probably why DL has one there now. If DL wants a transpacific hub in the SW US, they will build it at LAX which actually has a sizeable local Asian market.

 

[AAviator]

The problem is AA merger is inevitable

Oh no...

Not you too??

What is your definition of the "everyone to be happy" you've identified? The good news starved LCC folks?

 

[Zone5]

Nice someone brought out the LCC takeover proposal of DL- because it confirms that it was based on borrowing $5B in order to pay off the unsecured creditors. There is no reason to think that AA's unsecured creditors would settle for much less... the idea that any banker would loan anyone $5B to buy AA in the current economic environment is a stretch at best. If it involves another US airline, a deal can only be done on the basis of stock - and again LCC has the lowest market capitalization of any of the large jet airlines in the US.
.
And why would DL want to buy PHX in order to allow US to buy AA? If DL buys anything other than parts of AA, it will be AS because a SEA hub makes a whole lot more sense than one in the SW US - which is probably why DL has one there now. If DL wants a transpacific hub in the SW US, they will build it at LAX which actually has a sizeable local Asian market.

Which is exactly why AA would be better off without PHX, so they, could build up LAX. The suggestion that DL might be interested in PHX, is just supposition on my part. It might be of interest to AS or whomever, but if US were to put up PHX for sale, someone would buy it.

I don't claim to have a very clear crystal ball regarding the specifics, suffice to say that if shedding its self of the PHX operation were a condition of doing the deal with AA, US would try to make it happen.

"Rumor" on the line the other day was that the US legal team is quietly looking into the feasibility of doing just that. OK, maybe not so quietly.


seajay

 

[BoeingBoy]

but if US were to put up PHX for sale, someone would buy it.

First, what's to buy? Some beyond perimeter slots in DCA, which may or may not be able to be transferred anyway. Second, how may times have easties claimed that PHX loses money and has no value? Yet someone would pay good money for it??? For the right to compete with WN in one of their biggest focus cities???

"Rumor" on the line the other day was that the US legal team is quietly looking into the feasibility of doing just that. OK, maybe not so quietly.

That "rumor" (aka wishful thinking) has been around at least a couple of years. All it amounts to is east wanting to take ALL the benefits of the merger - the $2 billion cash, the bigger wide-body fleet, the ETOPS TA 757's, the 190's, furloughees back, new hires - while sticking the west with what's left of HP - PHX, fewer planes, furloughs.

Jim

 

[Zone5]

First, what's to buy? Some beyond perimeter slots in DCA, which may or may not be able to be transferred anyway. Second, how may times have easties claimed that PHX loses money and has no value? Yet someone would pay good money for it??? For the right to compete with WN in one of their biggest focus cities???



That "rumor" (aka wishful thinking) has been around at least a couple of years. All it amounts to is east wanting to take ALL the benefits of the merger - the $2 billion cash, the bigger wide-body fleet, the ETOPS TA 757's, the 190's, furloughees back, new hires - while sticking the west with what's left of HP - PHX, fewer planes, furloughs.

Jim

OK Jim, if as you say and you are correct (as always 😉 ) and there is no "value" to the PHX operation, I guess there just wouldn't be any takers.

Your list of "ALL the benefits" of the merger consists of post merger changes in fleet and staffing, additions and changes that are almost exclusively utilized by and directly benefit the East operation. Why do you suppose that is?

BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE VALUE IS!

Nobody I fly with has expressed any desire to "stick it" to the West. How about you, oh that's right, its been a few YEARS since you've flown a trip or spent any time in the crew room or been hanging out on any layovers. Amazing how you can maintain such an accurate take on the "sentiments" out on the line. Must be some kind of "Vulcan" mind thing you got going on.

Time will tell whether the West manages to make themselves a big enough pain in the butt, with respect to the SLI and its possible negative effect on "Team Tempe's" merger plans, to wind up being spun off, to make a deal happen. Wouldn't that be the ultimate irony! Don't think "Dougie" and the boys won't turn to "eating their young" if necessary to line their pockets and inflate their egos.


seajay

 

[BoeingBoy]

OK Jim, if as you say and you are correct (as always 😉 ) and there is no "value" to the PHX operation, I guess there just wouldn't be any takers.

"how may times have easties claimed that PHX loses money and has no value?"

I'm on record as pointing out that east would be right back in bankruptcy and facing liquidation without the west and the PHX hub. So don't try to make me a party to the west screwing you're attempting...

Your list of "ALL the benefits" of the merger consists of post merger changes in fleet and staffing, additions and changes that are almost exclusively utilized by and directly benefit the East operation. Why do you suppose that is?

Because east was saved from liquidation perhaps.

BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE VALUE IS!

Is that the value that resulted in 2 bankruptcies and would have ended in liquidation without the merger??? Now the east is "entitled" to it all.... :blink:

Nobody I fly with has expressed any desire to "stick it" to the West.

Actions speak louder than words...doing everything possible to get DOH says all that needs to be said.

Jim

 

[EastCheats]

Don't bet on it. If the "power" players want to do a deal, it will happen. If that means selling off Phoenix to say Delta (who could use the West feed across the Pacific) or whomever the highest bidder may turn out to be, so be it. The result, instant blank sheet of paper on an SLI agreement with AA and US, plus cash from the sale of AWA to throw in the pot.

Stranger things have and probably will happen.


seajay

Thanks for the morning laugh seajay. I was enjoying my morning espresso and about blew it out my nose. Where do you guys come up with this stuff? I think Bag-Dad Bob has reappered in the CLT office of misinformation. How long did it take to dream up that one? Whatever.

Let's say this fantasy, one of many I have read here recently comes true. Are you paying attention to what AAviator is writing? They don't want the ugly bride. I hate to break the news to you that Airways is going to be left at the altar.

 

[Zone5]

Thanks for the morning laugh seajay. I was enjoying my morning espresso and about blew it out my nose. Where do you guys come up with this stuff? I think Bag-Dad Bob has reappered in the CLT office of misinformation. How long did it take to dream up that one? Whatever.

Let's say this fantasy, one of many I have read here recently comes true. Are you paying attention to what AAviator is writing? They don't want the ugly bride. I hate to break the news to you that Airways is going to be left at the altar.

Actually, I can see a scenario where PHX becomes all that's left of US Airways. Think about it, the East gets parted out, sold, merged with XXX and or YYY. All the infrastructure of the former AWA is still there, hangers, gates, aircraft, employees, customers, training center, corp headquarters, ect, ect.

Stick a for sale sign on it and in the meantime continue to operate "Fortress Phoenix" just like back in the glory days. Hell, you could even gear up LAS again, I guess you would pretty much have to when the East flying goes away. Just like that, you would be right back to square one as if this nightmare of yours had never happened. You wouldn't even have to change the stationary at corp headquarters or the paint jobs on the planes, as the East would be doing all the painting!

Talk about irony. 😱


seajay