Our Real Enemies now pressuring Washington for more foreign MRO.

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xUT said:
I you may be shooting from the hip.
The foreign MRO's do not have to meet US FAA standards, much less EPA regulations, etc...
There does not exist a level playing field.
Cheaper labor aside:
1) they are not subject to a 15 year background check (by the FBI might be 5 years now, too old to remember)
2) they are not subject to drug testing.
3) they are not on the FAA radar and to the best of my knowledge have never been fined for shitty work, as USA maintenance has repeatedly.
Put us on a 'level' playing field at least.
B) xUT
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The USA will find it difficult to impose all of our laws on foreign countries around the world. You've listed what's different about maintenance performed outside the USA, and you're right - the playing field is not level, but so what? I'm unconvinced that your list of differences makes outsourced maintenance categorically "not safe." Sure, there's some unsafe maintenance going on, both here and abroad, and I have no confidence that any FAA inspector has any ability to make it safe, either here or abroad. Like many government bureaucrats, they tend to get in the way and impose costs on airlines like AA and WN.

The OP appears to be concerned with the number of jobs, apparently hoping that wages will rise if all maintenance has to be performed in the USA. The AA experience proves that the OP's hopes are probably not going to be realized, as AA has more inhouse maintenance, with more inhouse M&R employees than any other airline, yet the workers enjoy the lowest mainline airline maintenance wages.

I don't see the OP's efforts resulting in safer planes or higher maintenance personnel wages, but I'm sure that reasonable people can disagree.
 
xUT said:
I you may be shooting from the hip.
The foreign MRO's do not have to meet US FAA standards, much less EPA regulations, etc...
There does not exist a level playing field.
Cheaper labor aside:
1) they are not subject to a 15 year background check (by the FBI might be 5 years now, too old to remember)
2) they are not subject to drug testing.
3) they are not on the FAA radar and to the best of my knowledge have never been fined for shitty work, as USA maintenance has repeatedly.
Put us on a 'level' playing field at least.
B) xUT
Click to expand...
The other issue is the bi-lateral agreements. It is where the US signs an agreement that the other country will use their own agency to police the FAA regulations. Kind of like having the fox guard the hen house.While countries like Canada, Japan, and most of Western Europe are either equal or better than us on regs bilaterals become a real concern when you talk about China and Central America.
 
FWAAA said:
In a different thread (on the same topic), the OP said this:



Nothing wrong with embracing protectionism, but to make broad assertions that aircraft maintenance performed outside the USA is "not safe" is one key reason why the OP will never see his goal achieved. When you use fear tactics instead of facts to make your political arguments, you end up sounding like the stupid-ass Republicans when they try to scare Americans into voting for them.

(Don't worry - I have plenty of criticism for the stupid-ass Democrats in this country as well. Neither party has a monopoly on idiocy).

My point to the OP: Stop sounding like a stupid-ass politician and make rational, cogent arguments as to why all heavy overhaul of US-registered airlines simply must occur on US soil by US citizens at Very High Wages. And be prepared for the rational counterarguments of the stupid-ass airlines who want to save a buck.
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I think Romney did a study on how too much regulation inhibits competition at Bain.
 
Just the Facts II said:
Absolutely! Be careful what you say there. I think "Liking" the page should be well within acceptable conduct though. And then share it with friends who do not work for the airline and encourage them to comment!

All the more reason for the infamous "Aliases"!
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DADT is alive and well at Airline Forums
 
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FWAAA said:
In a different thread (on the same topic), the OP said this:



Nothing wrong with embracing protectionism, but to make broad assertions that aircraft maintenance performed outside the USA is "not safe" is one key reason why the OP will never see his goal achieved. When you use fear tactics instead of facts to make your political arguments, you end up sounding like the stupid-ass Republicans when they try to scare Americans into voting for them.

(Don't worry - I have plenty of criticism for the stupid-ass Democrats in this country as well. Neither party has a monopoly on idiocy).

My point to the OP: Stop sounding like a stupid-ass politician and make rational, cogent arguments as to why all heavy overhaul of US-registered airlines simply must occur on US soil by US citizens at Very High Wages. And be prepared for the rational counterarguments of the stupid-ass airlines who want to save a buck.
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"Very High Wages".... now isn't that relative?

How valuable is having a highly skilled and trained mechanic who can read, write, and understand English, using the manuals that are written in English, work on the aircraft that you fly on?

Those are FAA requirements to receive a license by the way. (In this country at least). Just how many mechanics overseas do you think could pass the FAA written, oral, and practical exams?

Again, the real enemies are the ARSA and the airlines who are shipping good jobs overseas and circumventing FAA regulations due to the FAA not having the manpower and/or the political backing to police the overseas maintenance bases.
 
Although a noble effort, it will go nowhere. Planes have not or are not dropping out of the sky due to shoddy maintenance. It does suck that good paying aircraft maintenance jobs are lost due to outsourcing, but there has not been a spike in air disasters attributed to maintenance performed at foreign repair stations.
Until a trend in incidences and fatalities are attributed to foreign repair stations, I don't see the government addressing this issue.

Having said that, the current adminstration should make an issue of good paying jobs being lost.
 
AA can shove their social media policy. Keeping MRO in the USA has it's safety arguments, but in my mind this is less about xenophobia and more about holding politicians accountable. Greed is what kills American jobs.

We need to see something more than platitudes during this election cycle. Both parties harp on and on about creating jobs. That old yarn is worn out. We need to gain commitments during the elections and hold them all to it. A RULE CHANGE could easily be ordered by President Obama. But does he care about all the jobs being lost? Is he aware? That is what this is all about.

See link below. Click link. Like the facebook page. Share the page with your friends and ask them to call their congressional representative. See the link pinned to the top of the page and CALL THE WHITE HOUSE.

Send them an email. Carry a sign and hold it up on a freeway entrance. These are just a few ideas. But we must get organized now. And the domestic shops like Dalfort and TIMCO should have an interest in eliminating foreign outsourcing too.

This is not just about mechanics either. Given the number of times our money turns over in the local economy, and the total numbers of employees at various shops. we are a multibillion dollar industry the country cannot afford to lose.

Now is the time to act!
 
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Just the Facts II said:
Just how many mechanics overseas do you think could pass the FAA written, oral, and practical exams?
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The mechanics I've met in Colombia, Brasil, Panama, Hong Kong and Thailand speak better English than half the people I've encountered in MIA...
 
No kidding, MCI, but my point is that you're not dealing with an illiterate workforce. Skilled jobs tend to be highly sought and competitive.
 
eolesen said:
No kidding, MCI, but my point is that you're not dealing with an illiterate workforce. Skilled jobs tend to be highly sought and competitive.
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With the eletion underfoot as we speak, wouldn't NOW be a good time to promote good US jobs as the two candidates assail each other over JOBS?
 
eolesen said:
The mechanics I've met in Colombia, Brasil, Panama, Hong Kong and Thailand speak better English than half the people I've encountered in MIA...
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eolesen said:
No kidding, MCI, but my point is that you're not dealing with an illiterate workforce. Skilled jobs tend to be highly sought and competitive.
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With a new Administration in office, (Romney) Maybe one way to bring American jobs back in house, would be to outlaw foreigners working on US Carrier Aircraft! ------- Pie in the sky thinking? ------ Maybe!------ Maybe not!!!
 
eolesen said:
The mechanics I've met in Colombia, Brasil, Panama, Hong Kong and Thailand speak better English than half the people I've encountered in MIA...
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You met the mechanics that they wanted you to meet. For the past 35 years we have lost millions of good paying jobs to foreign countries because of cheap labor. One the first to leave was the garment industry. Look inside that suit pocket of yours or your blue jeans, probably says made in Pakistan. Your tennis shoes and dress shoes, Korea, China or Viet Nam. Bet they were plenty of people that spoke proper English to land those acconts. Next the big 3 USA auto makers sending work across the borders for cheap labor, steel industry, toy makers, appliances, call centers......list keeps getting larger and larger. The top 2% of this country has portrayed the unions as greedy bastards that have forced them to relocate to foreign countries because the labor is cheaper and they can better compete. The top 2% is why no one will ever have a retirement, medical, vacation or other benfits if they have their way. Look at what we have lost in the past 30 years because of the corporate raiders and bankruptcies. They have brainwashed the general public to go along with this way of thinking that we don't deserve a livable wage with retirement and medical. Ronald Reagans trickle down theory has not worked at all for the middle class .Thanks to Ronnies VP. When he became President he signed the Foreign Repair Station Act. Now all these airlines are sending their mtce out of the country and places like Timco offer no benefits so they charge $40 an hour to work on our aircraft. Then we have to redo half the work that was outsourced. This not only affects the mechanics but every avenue associated with them union and non union alike. Out-sourcing ='s good paying jobs with benefits disappearing forever. So who gives f..k if Chinese speak good English. Jim Reams said the Company saves 30% if outsourced no matter if it takes 20 days longer to complete a heavy check. Lost Revenue is irrevelant. Safety is a key factor. Planes do not have to fall out the sky for them to be unsafe. Thanks to good ole American ingenuity there are many fail safe items on an aircraft to keep this from happening. Foreign repair stations having people that can speak English what a load of crap. Its cheap labor and that only. No more grits and greens for us but at least their rice bowls will be full.
 
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