Out Of Bankruptcy, Out Of Trouble?

[PITbull]

I find this real funny that HAWK and The Truth are playing each other.

Like we are stupid to believe either of them.

That games people play Try a better diversion.

We already know who HAWK is and it isn't who the Truth is implying.

 

[sweet-tart]

Tart,

Did you read your post?

The co. is still downsizing. What are you spouting? Taking more from the 14 year and up group?

If the seniior upper end didn't decide to take furloughs to preserve the bottom end, you would be much further down on the list of furloughees...

Unsolicted advice... rethink your position...you looking pretty bad right now.

[post="302613"][/post]​

Thankfully I no longer have to support my position, along with 97% of the pilot and alreay a majority of FA'S, we are no longer obligated to do such....will be interested in the 'Discovery' period, as someone in your position, I find it hard to believe you uphold 'doled out misery to the LEAST of us that pay equal union dues. ' There is absolutely no reason for us to disagree...facts are facts...I will rely upon them...As someone that is most certainly more informed than I, thanks for listening.

 

[PITbull]

IUnfortunately, if the industry continues to bleed, another round of concessions will be in the program. Maintenance could be outsource to save cost. Airways has proven that outsourcing is beneficial in cost reductions.  The CWA group can give more, one just needs to compare the pay benefits with HP.  I would not be surprised if Doug eliminates the international outsourcing in reservations, even though it did assist in reducing overall labor cost. 

[post="302620"][/post]​

Bob,

For the above reasons by HAWK (who is not who you think, so stop with the INDI stuff) there will be no changes at AWA. Parker is not labor friendly no matter how much he spouts off that he is or wants to be. He has hired Jerry as a consultant for a reason. One has to ask themselves this, if Hemenway is VP of Labor Relations, why do you need Jerry's consultation? What guidance does Hemeway need?

There is no peace for Labor. Only more of the same crap or worse. This managmnet still thinks that its still all about labor costs, and Jerry has convinced Doug of his necessity.

Been there... know that!

NO Bob, Labor "COULD" not give more.

No way in hell or heaven. :angry: Not for Dougie or AWA.

Its going to get real ugly now that DL and NW are in BK. Keep in mind that DL only has ALPA to contend with, and they are a push over. DL has no other unionized workers, and they will get their labor wages and workrules BELOW USA.. bet on it.

And then it will be our turn A-gain, and I can tell you from this perch, the majority of the MEC of AFA will NOT let it happen.

Don't get too many miles stacked up on USA. They're going to try to go lower with the merging of the provision negotiations, and they have Jerry.

Dougie has no idea about the U employees disposition or morale. He can only sepculate. If he tries this on his own people, the "new entity" will perish after the investor money starts to dry up.

The only incentive to keep USA alive is to keep upper managment employed with the big bucks and Jerry to rake in more dough by raking us over the coals again and again and again.

What will it take to stop this train wreck I ask?

 

[NeedForSpeed]

Glad to see you keep up with insults, name calling and attacks instead of actually adding to the topic at hand.

[post="302573"][/post]​

You must have that line stored on your desktop......if you don't like what I say.....don't even respond.........Why don't YOU stick to the topic at hand??? hmmmmm....????

 

[PITbull]

One more thing...I don't think we will see a consolidation with DL. They will emerge from BK solo when they dump their pilots pension plans and get their labor costs and lease agreements where they want them. They are in BK, they surely don't need a Jerry-type. After all, they have the BK judge.

I am no expert on aviation or Labor, but I can amateurely forcast that NW may consolidate with someone like CO.

I also expect the PBGC to really put up a fight on the pension dumping spiral.

Congress will probably have to intervene with new Bills coming to the floor.

These BKs may open the door for re-regulation.

I had the opportunity to speak to the Senator from WV (Dem) on one of USAirways flights from DCA to PIT about 2 years ago. I asked him his thoughts on reregulation of the industry. He said that that would not happen now, but could happen in the future. Much would have to happen in the industry to make way for re-regulation with a R-House/Senate and administration would be difficult to introduce.

I believe much has happend to the industry since then.

 

[TheLarkAscending]

While there might have been a few miscalculations with various business decisions...

They ought to put you in charge of the next category 4 hurricane relief & rescue effort...you'd fit right in. <_<

 

[NeedForSpeed]

PITbull....US opened a pandoras box to what is now taking place in this industry......NO congress...Dem, or Rep, will ever take on re-regulating this industry....this is what we all knew was going to happen. CONSOLIDATION of the US Airline industry. As current,or former us employees well know, from the stock room guys/gals, the mechs, to the F/a's, and pilots......everyone talked about it, and knew the day was coming. I hate to mention 9/11, but, we all know that this terrible occasion just sped up the process. This industry will never be regulated again....market forces...(too much capacity...high fuel prices), are doing the job just fine

 

[PITbull]

Speed,

9/11 are excuses. Not 1 airline has filed Chapter 7. No legacy carrier has filed 7.

No. Its not working. in fact these BK are extremely inflationary. Someone has to pick up the tab for creditors losing money. Its a trickle down effect.

Its a race to the bottom and the only thing that will stop this spiral is not Ch 7s but reregulation.

Consolidation approval is a form of reregulation. Why? Because it allows for less competition and higher pricing for the consumer...the opposite of what deregualtion was suppose to accomplish.

I know you know this. Stop with the covert protecting of the immoral majority R-

 

[Finish or Ignore]

Hawk is a windup artist. "Miscalculations" is the understatement of the century.

[post="302590"][/post]​

Clue,
I disagree with your assessment about the artist. As I have said before, Hawk/Crellin/Palladini are responsible for most of the rock bottom morale of the rank and file. I also think he really believes what he writes which as we all know, proves that the above mentioned folks are clueless and anyone in the right circumstance can make it to management.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Pitbull,

I guess it all depends on the definition of "reregulation".

If one means a return to the type of regulation that existed prior to 1978 with a government agency alloting routes, setting fares, etc, I agree with NFS - I'd be willing to bet it won't happen. The industry has changed too much since 1978 for that, and I'm talking about the lack of homogeny - back then the "regulated" airlines had similiar costs so setting fare levels was a pretty simple undertaking. Regulated fares resulted in the flying public not really caring which airline served their city - the fares between point A & B were the same no matter the name on the side of the plane.

Today, we have variations on the cost side of 50%. Do you set the fares so that the highest cost airlines can make a profit and what would the public response be if you did - all those folks flying WN, B6, etc would scream bloody murder at the fare increases they'd see. Or do you set fares so the lowest cost providers can make a profit, leaving the higher cost producers trying to squeeze out costs any way they can to stay in business (and employees at those carriers suffering the fate reregulation is supposed to prevent)?

What politician wants to face the voters in his/her district if the government says WN, B6, etc, can't serve their city - only AA, CO, or US can since there's not enough traffic for more than one carrier to operate at a profit.

Or do the routes get allocated on the basis of public good - and remembering that low fares are a "public good"? The low cost carriers would get all the route approvals leaving the higher cost carriers where?

If, on the other hand, reregulation means approving mergers we're talking about a completely different ball of wax.

Jim

 

[NeedForSpeed]

Speed,

9/11 are excuses. Not 1 airline has filed Chapter 7. No legacy carrier has filed 7.

No. Its not working. in fact these BK are extremely inflationary. Someone has to pick up the tab for creditors losing money. Its a trickle down effect.

Its a race to the bottom and the only thing that will stop this spiral is not Ch 7s but reregulation.

Consolidation approval is a form of reregulation. Why? Because it allows for less competition and higher pricing for the consumer...the opposite of what deregualtion was suppose to accomplish.

I know you know this. Stop with the covert protecting of the immoral majority R-

[post="302660"][/post]​

pitbull.....you said congress needs to re-regulate...i was merely trying to point out that NEITHER party will tackle this issue as far as regulating this industry....Consolidation is NOT a form of re-regulation, as you put it, but market forces...US started this, and we all knew the "domino effect" was coming.. Consolidation means less competition??????...Your kidding???? The LCC's may not be nervous right now, but if the legacy carriers accomplish what they have embarked on, well, then IMO, that is market forces at work....NOT Government intervention to regulate....and I dont call that protecting the "immoral REP's"

 

[PITbull]

BB,

I don't know about taking the industry back pre-78. Airline transportation is a mode of transportation that will never erode, unless someone invents individual airtransport machines...

But re-regulating is necessary. Otherwise, there is no end to this madness. Look at U as an example. They went into BK twice in 2 years. What's the limit on Ch 11 filings for Corporations? I don't think there is any.

Ch 11 filings could go on for years and years and years. If fares are not going up now, with the price of fuel per barrel at historical levels with no stabilization in sight, what's the answer? And there has been no liquidations.

At this pace, the only folks who maintain or increase life style by holding on to thier jobs and keeping their specific airline existing, are the Execs.

The rest of labor just keeps going further down the shoot to maintain the execs compensation. There is NO incentive for an executive to bring in profits. They just don't lose their jobs, specifically in BK because of the payout the investors or DIP fiancier or creditors have to scrape up.

Bk is in, and Labor is out.

Nope. I think regulating the industry is the answer to "balance".

 

[NeedForSpeed]

Well said, Jim..........

 

[PITbull]

Boeing,

How could there be LCC in a regulated market as your post indicates?

Regulation would dictate the market forces and anyone in the airline transporation business would basically be at the same fare price. Certain small cities pay for airlines to come into a market. The gov. did that during regulation.

Why are folks so abhored by having the gov. involved. They are already involved. What the heck was a taxpayer bailout about?

Some things are just necessary.

 

[NeedForSpeed]

Re- regulating is NOT the answer PITBull......you keep using the example of "executive" vs the " laboror"......They did not go into BK to protect themselves!!!!Did some of them get compensated unfairly???? YES!!!! But....the airline industry is consolidating to SURVIVE!!!! We can talk about labor, and executives untill we are blue in the face, the fact remains, that the industry had to change if it was to survive. And for many of us, for many years who enjoyed great wages, and a terrific work environment, well that is all gone now, and I find it very disingenuous for you to just lay it all on the lap of the "executives"!!!!! That is a typical response......There is enough blame to go around for everyone.




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