overflying...

[legacy-to-LCC]

january's reserve list will include f/a's with 19 years of seniority. what a disgrace!
inevitably, and as is already the case, we will see blockholders flying in excess of 150 hours to cushion their contractual losses in pay, etc.

i equate overflying with theft. there is no difference...

just curious what the rank and file, especially reserves, have to say about their loss in earning potential sacrificed to blockholders...

seniority is one thing...theft is another...

of course, AFA chooses not to acknowledge this problem...another disgrace.

 

[flybynite]

As a blockholder, I wouldn't dream of working 150 hrs. That's just nuts IMO. I'm not interested in walking around crosseyed with fatigue for a few more dollars.

I think scheduling should be the ones to prevent f/a's from going over 90 to 100 hrs. When you reach your maximums...your done. Fini.

And I'm sorry reserve has gone to 19 years. That's just awful. Been there and done that. BTW, which base are you talking about?

 

[PHLFlyer]

Just take a look at the open time in Philly. Almost on a daily basis there are nearly 3 1/2 pages of open time in Catcrew. Then by 3 p.m. there is nothing but one or two trips and OPR for reserves. This happens every year at this time, it goes on for months and nothing is done about it. It's disgraceful.

The union does nothing. Scheduling does nothing. And the supervisors do nothing, at least in PHL. If scheduling can tell a reserve when they are not allowed to fly then they should also tell a BH when they are not allowed to fly. Simple as that. This is a contractual issue and a grievance should be filed, but will AFA do that? No.

Reserves here are treated like we are still on probation. I have nearly ten years seniority and my friends at Delta and United can't believe that not only am I still on reserve but for five to six months out of the year I don't even break my guarantee. In their words, "pathetic".

Reserves are coming to their breaking point. Something needs to be done. I wonder if there is anything we as a group can do as far as legal action against AFA? We are definitely discriminated against. There is no level playing field. We pay the same amount in dues yet the rules unfairly favor senior members.

Here we are as reserves and most of us want to work but can't. Then you have BHs who only care about what they can get in a new contract when it comes to not working ie. sick pay, vacation and filler days. It's sad that our union puts more emphasis on ways to get paid by not working then by helping reserves get paid by working.

 

[Travelpro72]

This has been going on for HOW long now? This is nothing new. The reserves will take it because they have no choice. It's horrible how some will fly all of those hours which certainly DOES take away from others. All the griping and phone calls to the union won't change a thing either. We don't have one collective voice. It's pretty sad as some other f/a's at other airlines have stated. I have explained our situation to different f/a's of other airlines and they are in disbelief. The union tells you their hands are tied due to contractual bs and the company couldn't care any less. Hell, why should they care? We're all a #. You either put up with it or you leave and try to find a different job in this economy. Good luck.

 

[desertgal]

Is there anyway, in a nutshell, to explain what you are talking about?

I understood that East contract allows for a 'cap' on hours. Is it 90?
If there is a cap, how does the scheduling program even allow a FA to go over?
Where are they getting the extra time-from company open time or personal trades?

I don't understand PHLflyers reference to 3pages of open time in the morning gone by 3pm.
Does 'new' opentime come out every day?
At West we see actual available opentime for the entire month or any given day (and there has been very little to see since summer ended).

And finally, why is this viewed as a major imbalance tilted toward block holders, or an injustice to reserves.

I realize scheduling workrules are complex but a brief overview would help.
Trying to learn pros and cons of our different contracts since we are trying to combine for a better contract.
thx

 

[PHLFlyer]

On the East and at the old US we have always had the most open time of any airline out there. Every airline has some amount of open time but we have the most.

BHs get what we call a "block" each month, or what others may call a "line", and a block is worth a certain amount of time. The blocks vary in time, lets say from 75 hours up to 85. This is "company time" and block holders here are responsible to fly it.

At most airlines, the block you get is the block you fly. Not here in US East. Here we have always made our company open time available first to BHs so they can "trip improve" if they don't like a trip in their block. This is a great benefit for BHSs (however, a lot of this open time could be used to add more blocks).

When a reserve says a trip is "stolen", what has really happened is a BH has taken a trip from open time and is flying on their days off, therefore overflying and, per our contract, not allowed.

Anyway, the open time for each base for the next day can be scene in our Catcrew system. When PHL has 3 1/2 pages of open time on a certain day, that's A LOT of trips. Open time is what is eventually covered for the next day by reserves at 3 p.m.

There are a few scenerios as to why open time disappears before a reserve gets it, but to put it in simple terms -- a BH takes it.

Now, there are many ways our contract allows BHs to pick up trips on their days off and it's legal. The ETB or trade board for instance. Or, if they have gone over their company time they must drop a trip in their block to bring it back down. Many don't do this for obvious financial reasons. They should be disciplined but often it is just overlooked by supervisors. Schedulers will award open time to a BH and not care that it puts a BH over. Their job, as they see it, is just to make sure it gets covered, and BHs get first choice.

Overflying happens throughout the year but seems to impact reserves more in the winter and especially in PHL because of seasonal flying. It may not be the same people overflying month after month but when done as a whole it has a cumulative affect on reserves.

This was my best and simplest take on the matter. It's actually a bit more complex. I'm sure I have overlooked some things either for simplicity sake or because I have never been a block holder so I'm not as familiar. I'm sure I will be corrected.

As far as the imbalance? Where do I start? It lies in the fact that reserves are written up for anything and everything. The imbalance lies in our earning potential taken away. The imbalance lies in the fact that 19 year flight attendants are on reserve. The imbalance lies in what other airlines and other AFA members have. The imbalance lies in rest requirements, 24/7 and being on call 24 hours a day for six days.

The fact is, something can be done about our reserve system. Just look at other airlines for God's sake. Look at other AFA backed reserve systems. Something can be done. Side letters, rotating reserve or like Delta, no reserves.

 

[flybynite]

Also note that trips picked up on the ETB on the east isn't considered "company time" and isn't included in a f/a's monthly maximums. Whoever came up with that concept needs to be shot. Time picked up from the ETB should be pay and credit. That's one of the loop holes in the contract.

 

[PHLFlyer]

Here's another thought -- why make BHs responsible for their block?

I'm sure the company has their reasons but American lets their block holders drop down. American doesn't care who flys a trip as long as it gets flown. There are plenty of BHs who don't want to fly their block time. Let them drop it. There are plenty of reserves who can cover that time and it would be cheaper for the company. If there aren't enough reserves then all scheduling has to do is say no.

 

[PHLFlyer]

I should also add to my previous post that BHs on the East are allowed to get rid of their company time and not be responsible to make up for it if they drop it and it is picked up off the ETB or trade board. I believe they can drop to 40 hours.

We used to have lower block "options" for those FAs who didn't want to work as much but we got rid of options in place of a preferential bidding system, which we still don't have but will hopefully get with a new contract. Preferential bidding will get rid of the open time and create more blocks making it more fair.

At the same time, why wait for a new contract? Make a side letter. The union won't do this, however, because they know the company wants preferential bidding. It saves them money and the union is using it as leverage to gain other things in a new contract.

 

[PHLFlyer]

Let me clarify -- preferential bidding is included in our current contract. The fact that we don't have it yet is a violation. Am I wrong about this?

 

[songbirdstew]

PHLFlyer---can't agree with you more. Some companies let F/As drop to zero hours....who cares who flies the trip just as long as it gets flown and F/As are not going over their flying time???

 

[songbirdstew]

I just flew with a guy that said he gets overfly letters every month and that's it. He gets a letter and then nothing else is done. He consistently flys 120-150 because he doesn't want to be home. I agree with you. It IS stealing from RSVs and needs to be stopped.
C/S needs to stop allowing people to pick up trips off the bidsheet if it will put them WAY over and they should be required to split or drop down to their block obligation by the end of the month.
In addition, i am hoping that ETB time will count towards the mothly obligation/pay/credit in the next cotract as I believe that's what the West side has.
Just my opinion.

 

[lildutchgrl]

I agree with everything being said. Overflying is such a huge problem, but nobody gets punished. I suggested that any scheduler who approves a trip for a flight attendant that takes them over their 90 hours should be punished. That may be the only way to stop the overflying. I was sick of being on reserve seeing other flight attendants overflying by 20+ hours a month. I found a way to leave. I feel bad for my friends, who at my seniority have 11 years, that are still on reserve for at least half the year. I was shocked when they told me about Dec. and Jan. reserve.

I was based in DCA for a short time. In the crew room they had a book that showed what everyone in that base flew and what their schedule was. We didn't have a big overfly problem then, but we had the different options. That book no longer exists. If it did, it would be at the OPR table everyday to see who was overflying.

I wrote to MF a year ago to voice my concerns. He basically laughed at me when I said to make the ETB pay and credit instead of pay no credit. He also laughed at me when I suggested cutting the AIL from the contract, saying that would NEVER happen.

Following my letter to him and his response, I started my plan to leave. I worked tons of ETB trips as reserve and saved up my money and found a way that I could leave in June. I can say I don't miss it at all, but I miss my friends and some of the crazy things we did. The East MEC will never vote for anything that is going to impair their seniority. That means, the AIL is here to stay. The overflying is here to stay. The 10+ years on reserve is here to stay. The only way to change this is to get the LEC's in your bases to not vote for the current MEC officers in the next election. Just scream CHANGE!

 

[aredeeyou22]

I
I wrote to MF a year ago to voice my concerns. He basically laughed at me when I said to make the ETB pay and credit instead of pay no credit. He also laughed at me when I suggested cutting the AIL from the contract, saying that would NEVER happen.

How can you tell when someone is laughing at you over an e-mail?

 

[lildutchgrl]

How can you tell when someone is laughing at you over an e-mail?

It was the sarcasm and wording he chose to use. Especially how he chose to underline and use capitals in certain spots.