ALPA AWA MEC Thread for 8/10-8/17

[AWA320]

quote name='AWA320' "Either way you and I both know that the wide body flying here at this company sucks"

QUOTE(AWA320 @ Aug 14 2007, 08:02 PM)
The west is in no great hurry to commute to upgrade. In fact there are far more east pilots that want to be based out here in the west than west pilots that want to be based back east..."

QUOTE(AWA320 @ Aug 14 2007, 08:02 PM)
Oh brother!! What a joke. You GAVE profit sharing because you felt it would lessen the blow when you got DOH!! Want it back?? Would do so gladly soon as you end this unnecessary BS!!"

quote name='AWA320' :"I can say without a doubt that commuting to the east coast losing a day each way to sit reserve capt is not on my list of things most wanted!!!!"
OK: It's finally clear to me:

"The west is in no great hurry to commute to upgrade"
"..you and I both know that the wide body flying here at this company sucks"

And...you'll cheerfully refund the profit sharing? ..and you don't want our attrition, the widebody flying, or any east upgrade?

The west position is one of selfless nobility then. I've been so "misinformed" it seems.

One question only =WHY do you care about implementing the Nic "award" at all?

Sorry..I must go get a replacement for my BS Indicator....even though it's digital...It just gagged, pegged out and then burned up.

I give up as trying to get anywhere with that mentality is a waste of time. Keep in mind, you work for a DIFFERENT company LCC and your attrition became our attrition once we gave up our growth for you. No who saved who in that just plain facts east!

Now I told you before we could run mock bids to get you the information you are after. You need not respond with more non sense...

 

[BottomFeeder]

Tell you what, if getting numbers is what you need then lets put something together to help ease your fears however asking to reorder a list based solely on your and your brethrens fears is ridiculous. Now we will see and this frome the west is about 100 pilots going east adn that number is rounded way up. I expect that the number of east heading this way is more than doubled that number. I can say without a doubt that commuting to the east coast losing a day each way to sit reserve capt is not on my list of things most wanted!!!!

AWA320,

Just as I figured, you pull sh1t out of your a$$ and say they are facts.

After 6 quarters of losses when are you going to figure out who really saved who?

Both side have sent aircraft back and the growth is ZERO. So the East ATTRITION is fueling the recalls to the tune of 500 and it only gets better over the next few years.

You want what the East has paid for with blood, sweat and much more. So when we say WHATEVER it take we mean it!

When your GREED stops, there might be a chance but this has become personal and NO we won't get over like we did with the pension.

 

[EastUS]

I give up as trying to get anywhere with that mentality is a waste of time. Keep in mind, you work for a DIFFERENT company LCC and your attrition became our attrition once we gave up our growth for you. No who saved who in that just plain facts east!

Now I told you before we could run mock bids to get you the information you are after. You need not respond with more non sense...

"Sorry..I must go get a replacement for my BS Indicator....even though it's digital...It just gagged, pegged out and then burned up."

My just-purchased replacement BS Indicator was guaranteed to withstand even the entire election/political season...and it just burst into flames :blink: At least I bought the extended warranty this time

As per "nonsense"?:
quote name='AWA320' "Either way you and I both know that the wide body flying here at this company sucks"

QUOTE(AWA320 @ Aug 14 2007, 08:02 PM)
The west is in no great hurry to commute to upgrade. In fact there are far more east pilots that want to be based out here in the west than west pilots that want to be based back east..."

QUOTE(AWA320 @ Aug 14 2007, 08:02 PM)
Oh brother!! What a joke. You GAVE profit sharing because you felt it would lessen the blow when you got DOH!! Want it back?? Would do so gladly soon as you end this unnecessary BS!!"

quote name='AWA320' :"I can say without a doubt that commuting to the east coast losing a day each way to sit reserve capt is not on my list of things most wanted!!!!"

quote name='AWA320'"...and your attrition became our attrition"

Those are your own words....I'll leave any readers to determine what constitutes "nonsense".


You've completely dodged a seemingly harmless question = WHY do you care about implementing the Nic "award" at all?

 

[USA320Pilot]

Dear AWA Pilots,

Here are a few points that I believe are germane to the discussion:

1. There will never be a joint contract while the Nicolau Award is in place. You cannot make the US Airways MEC or the pilots vote for a TA.

2. Last Friday US Airways announced Pilot Permanent Bid 07-05. Two big drivers were 165 pilot recalls for November and December, which increased the number of pilot recalls to over 500 for this year.

3. Management has told the East MEC that there will be new hire pilots added to the East seniority list from the AWA pool this Fall.

4. This attrition is providing the East pilots with pay raises as First Officer's become Captain's, Reserves become Lineholders, and Narrowbody pilots become Widebody pilots. During this process no AWA pilot can become a Widebody pilot.

5. In 2010 and 2011 the US Airways pilots receive a total of $70 million in lump sum payments, which is about $23,000.

6. The East pilots believe they will be better off in the long run by preventing the Nicolau Award from being passed to the Company. Why? There will be about 300-400 East pilots leaving the company each year and about the same number added to the bottom of the seniority list as new hires.

7. The vast majority of East pilots would rather keep the two pilot groups separate and enjoy the benefits of their attrition based career expectation than agree to a new contract because thye believe thier long-term earning power is greater.

8. Most of the East pilots encourage the West pilots to enter into Section 6 negotiations.

9. ALPA de-certification on both the East and West property is getting closer every day.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[b737fo]

Dear AWA Pilots,

8. Most of the East pilots encourage the West pilots to enter into Section 6 negotiations.

9. ALPA de-certification on both the East and West property is getting closer every day.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Section 6 is likely to be as successful as "equal pay for equal work". I believe it is delusional to think that section 6 now out West or after LOA93 in the East would ever really lead to a substantially better contract since self help leverage would be diminished with the company's ability to whipsaw if we are still running separate operations. It doesn't help when there are implications by some of our fellow pilots that picket lines would be crossed or when you have pilots with a dubious history still on the seniority list.

I look forward to my vote on this supposed representation election so hurry up East and either get your cards in or not. It seems obvious so far that USAPA and I don't have common goals but I won't let the threat of someone taking my union away from me change my opinion on the important issues facing this group.

 

[700UW]

Union Officers Elected at ALPA America West
Wednesday August 15, 8:00 am ET


PHOENIX, Aug. 15 /PRNewswire/ -- Leaders of the America West unit of the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA) recently elected Captain John McIlvenna to serve as chairman of the Master Executive Council (MEC), the union's governing body. Additionally, First Officer Mitch Vasin was elected to serve as MEC vice chairman and Captain Peter Blandino was elected to serve as MEC secretary-treasurer. The officers -- all of whom currently serve in their positions -- were elected unanimously by the MEC to serve two-year terms in accordance with ALPA's Constitution and By-Laws.

The following is a statement from Captain McIlvenna:

"I am honored to again be elected to lead the America West pilots as their MEC chairman. Since this merger was announced nearly two and a half years ago, we have overcome many challenges. But we still have several formidable tasks ahead, namely negotiating a contract that recognizes the contributions and sacrifices made by our pilots.

"We have been in negotiations -- along with our pilot counterparts at the former US Airways -- for 21 months with management for a fair, single contract. Such an agreement would enable management to realize the full benefits of the new US Airways for our investors and passengers. We intend to get our negotiations back on track, secure solid wage, benefit and work rule improvements, and get on with the business of building a better airline."

The America West pilots joined with the US Airways pilots to negotiate a Transition Agreement that set out the process for an orderly negotiation of a single contract, but also preserved the rights of America West pilots to engage in stand-alone negotiations under the Railway Labor Act. The America West pilots' agreement became amendable December 30, 2006.

Captain McIlvenna was first elected to the position of MEC chairman in December 2006 after serving as the union's vice chairman. An Airbus A320/319 pilot, Captain McIlvenna previously served as a status representative on the MEC. Additionally, he has served on various pilot committees both at America West and at his former ALPA carrier, including chairman of the Merger Committee, chairman of the Negotiating Committee, and vice chairman of the Retirement and Insurance Committee.

First Officer Vasin, a Boeing 737 pilot, joined the MEC as its vice chairman in December 2006. Prior to being elected to this position, First Officer Vasin served as the chairman of the Grievance Committee, which enforces the pilots' collective bargaining agreement. He also served as a status representative on the MEC and as the chairman of the Grievance Committee at his former ALPA carrier.

Captain Blandino has held the position of secretary treasurer of the MEC since March 2006. A Boeing 737 pilot, Captain Blandino has also served as a member of the MEC and chairman of the Communications, Grievance and Pilot-to- Pilot Committees.

The Air Line Pilots Association is the bargaining agent for the nearly 1,900 pilots at America West Airlines. Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world's largest pilot union, representing more than 60,000 pilots at 41 airlines in the United States and Canada. Visit the ALPA website at http://www.alpa.org.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,

Just as I figured, you pull sh1t out of your a$$ and say they are facts.

After 6 quarters of losses when are you going to figure out who really saved who?

Both side have sent aircraft back and the growth is ZERO. So the East ATTRITION is fueling the recalls to the tune of 500 and it only gets better over the next few years.

You want what the East has paid for with blood, sweat and much more. So when we say WHATEVER it take we mean it!

When your GREED stops, there might be a chance but this has become personal and NO we won't get over like we did with the pension.

6qt of losses??? Where is that coming from?? Ok do what you gotta do but again it will be YOUR failure again!! Wise up man you on a losing mission that will only cost you as time goes on. Blood and sweat you claim? That would have been really something if you caould have pulled it off ALONE but you couldn't you needed AWA and that comes at a price not you don't want to pay your bills well that's what the collections agency is for.

Stop being stupid and get to the tables!!! Attrition??? You had no attrition without AWA only sure liquidation as Kirby said in a one of his many addresses...

 

[AWA320]

Dear AWA Pilots,

Here are a few points that I believe are germane to the discussion:

1. There will never be a joint contract while the Nicolau Award is in place. You cannot make the US Airways MEC or the pilots vote for a TA.

Ok then why even waste the time of the Rice committee and the EC as you have so often asked that we do?? Contradiction at its best!!

2. Last Friday US Airways announced Pilot Permanent Bid 07-05. Two big drivers were 165 pilot recalls for November and December, which increased the number of pilot recalls to over 500 for this year.

This is good news and again something ONLY possible as a result of AWA in the picture, give credit where credit is due

3. Management has told the East MEC that there will be new hire pilots added to the East seniority list from the AWA pool this Fall.

Ahh here again your lies, one of my former coworkers is in the next class in Aug and his LETTER from the company states he will be placed on a third and seperate list and guess what it says that in the transition agreement as well!! Do you ever tell the truth???

4. This attrition is providing the East pilots with pay raises as First Officer's become Captain's, Reserves become Lineholders, and Narrowbody pilots become Widebody pilots. During this process no AWA pilot can become a Widebody pilot.

This will sure come back to bite the east group and the pain is again something that never needed to happen! You consistantly advocate poor play and wonder why we take the positions we do. Tell them to prepare for perminate reserve as a result of your continued BAD decisions.

5. In 2010 and 2011 the US Airways pilots receive a total of $70 million in lump sum payments, which is about $23,000.

Lets make a bet that you never see it!!

6. The East pilots believe they will be better off in the long run by preventing the Nicolau Award from being passed to the Company. Why? There will be about 300-400 East pilots leaving the company each year and about the same number added to the bottom of the seniority list as new hires.

Can't wait for Sept 25, that's the day when your world of deceit begins to crumble!! Remember GOD don't like ugly and what goes around comes around so get prepared...

7. The vast majority of East pilots would rather keep the two pilot groups separate and enjoy the benefits of their attrition based career expectation than agree to a new contract because thye believe thier long-term earning power is greater.

Not gonna happen as management has alrady told you and made this point well known, they will not be doing seperate ops or seperate contracts. You are about to cost the east pilots more than pay my man and you have failed to heed the warnings coming out of Tempe! Hard head makes for really soft a$$.
8. Most of the East pilots encourage the West pilots to enter into Section 6 negotiations.

Why do that when the transition agreement YOU SIGNED says joint. Man you guys never want to honor you agreements do you yet you want others to honor theirs with this 70 million payout.

9. ALPA de-certification on both the East and West property is getting closer every day.

This has got to be the funniest of all in this post of yours Tell the truth please!!! You have barely 1000 cards collected you need well over 1500 more just to get it going and that is likely not gonna happen. Your whole decert effort is losing steam on your property and will never get any support out here. I like humoring you though so lets assume you did get it, how are you going pay for the law suit against you by us??? You will also have an immediate DFR issue as PHX and LAS are NOT being represented properly! You really haven't thought this thing thru have?? Now lets look at the company's take on this and all the money they spent getting us all cross trained and the east pilots with all their pull will not allowed it!! Bases within bases my man bases within bases. You are setting your piulots up for the biggest fall in the history of their careers. Now all they need to do is look at your and their mec's track record thus far!!!! Get a clue east pilots you are being set up for failure...

Fraternally

 

[nostradamus]

AWA320 Quote

"Not gonna happen as management has already told you and made this point well known, they will not be doing seperate ops or seperate contracts. You are about to cost the east pilots more than pay my man and you have failed to heed the warnings coming out of Tempe! Hard head makes for really soft a$$."


Nostradamus thoughts:

Aside the debates on this board, ad nauseam, about the legalities, morality and strategies of both pilot groups the only safe solution for the flying public, is to run the operations separately for the near future. If one has a basic understanding of human nature they can predict that these discussions will carry over into the cockpits which will obviously cause a distraction that is unacceptable.

A judge can not and will not force a married couple to get along, you can not legislate or order harmony. Only time and attrition will heal these wounds.

 

[767jetz]

You are setting your piulots up for the biggest fall in the history of their careers. Now all they need to do is look at your and their mec's track record thus far!!!! Get a clue east pilots you are being set up for failure...

Keep in mind, history has shown that the harder USA320pilot tries to spin and convince people of his theories, the more likely it is that they will NOT happen.

 

[Piedmont1984]

AWA320

It wasn't too long ago you posted that you would be surprised if 200 cards were sent in. Now you are talking 1000. I have it on good authority that 1000 is history.

Let's set aside for a moment all the technical/legal merits of this issue. Lets play a kind of mind game. Is the award fair or unfair? Let's focus only on the result - only on the reaction.

Aside from a few token comments from the West regarding dissatisfaction with the outcome, stated mainly to support their argument, all the West pilots want this award to remain. OTOH, all the East pilots want the award to go.

What does that say to you? If the award was fair and equitable, both sides would be equally unhappy with the result. Or at least some significant, measurable percentage of both sides would be equally pissed. But not here.

If there is such a wide, and I mean polar opposite, disparity in the reaction to this award then how can it be interpreted as fair and equitable. Someone received a windfall here and windfalls accrued to one side at the expense of the other are a no-no. Yes?

I will repeat what I have said on these boards before. I do not accuse the West pilots of any wrongdoing. But I do say that you guys won the lottery, and the arbitrator took the easy way out, did not comply with merger policy, and did both pilot groups a disservice.

 

[Phoenix]

You're right. I should have just left it alone...

Imagine how unsafe the cockpits will be if the EC forces the list. USAir cockpits would have extremely rare, infrequent and fleeting agreement, your post being an example of one such rare moment.

 

[Bear96]

Imagine how unsafe the cockpits will be if the EC forces the list. USAir cockpits would have extremely rare, infrequent and fleeting agreement, your post being an example of one such rare moment.

"Do what we say or we'll crash your airplanes."

Nice. I think that shows how out of control some East pilots are.

Perhaps management should proactively identify those pilots who are that upset by the Nic award (starting with certain posters here) and proactively remove them from the cockpit in the name of safety.

 

[Phoenix]

"Do what we say or we'll crash your airplanes."

Nice. I think that shows how out of control some East pilots are.

Perhaps management should proactively identify those pilots who are that upset by the Nic award (starting with certain posters here) and proactively remove them from the cockpit in the name of safety.

Nice of you to jump into a conversation that wasn't yours and add nothing but hysteria and unfounded suspicion, fear, and ignorance. Welcome to my ignore list. You've earned it.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320

It wasn't too long ago you posted that you would be surprised if 200 cards were sent in. Now you are talking 1000. I have it on good authority that 1000 is history.

That is correct I did say that and in hearing from one of your east capts trying to recruit a west pilot who lives in Philly. His statement that usapa had only 1000 cards and that was just a few short days ago.

Let's set aside for a moment all the technical/legal merits of this issue. Lets play a kind of mind game. Is the award fair or unfair? Let's focus only on the result - only on the reaction.

I don't and will never feel that the award is unfair in fact we feel lucky to not have been screwed in the deal that DOH would have done to us.

Aside from a few token comments from the West regarding dissatisfaction with the outcome, stated mainly to support their argument, all the West pilots want this award to remain. OTOH, all the East pilots want the award to go.

The east doesn't want it just like they never wanted to deal outside of arb!! They wanted it all and all at our expense! We tried in vein to get something done prior but your mec flat out refused, we went to court and got a judgement and now after all the money has been spent you finally want a deal and again at our expense?? Would you want to deal if you got DOH??? We are doing nothing but wasting time and more money for a result that we already know the answers to.

What does that say to you? If the award was fair and equitable, both sides would be equally unhappy with the result. Or at least some significant, measurable percentage of both sides would be equally pissed. But not here.

It is Piedmont!! Where you were yesterday is where you are today!! The East is not going ot be happy until we are stapled to the bottom of the joint list and that just can not happen and it did not happen!!

If there is such a wide, and I mean polar opposite, disparity in the reaction to this award then how can it be interpreted as fair and equitable. Someone received a windfall here and windfalls accrued to one side at the expense of the other are a no-no. Yes?

Yes it did!! The west number 1 guy is now number 518 let me say that again he lost 518 numbers!!! Is that not a huge windfall Piedmont??

I will repeat what I have said on these boards before. I do not accuse the West pilots of any wrongdoing. But I do say that you guys won the lottery, and the arbitrator took the easy way out, did not comply with merger policy, and did both pilot groups a disservice.

Piedmont I don't feel like I won a lottery, I just feel that I didn't get hosed!! The DOH mantra never stopped there was simply no compromise on the part of the east pilot group NONE!! We in the west did nothing other than put on a case and not get screwed!