OVL leaves/partnership flying and Travel Separation options

[czerny]

The Company just announced today the following options to mitigate a furlough. Anyone who is junior should really take a minute and think about partnership flying as a means to possibly save not only your own job, but also that of another co worker. my buddy bidder is on vacation out of the country, and I'm anxiously waiting her return to see if she's interested. We talked about it a while back. the information is posted on flt. svc website. However, I was not able to find out what the exact overage is, or how long the partnership flying is.
Any clues?

 

[czerny]

Just got off the phone with APFA. Details reg. the length of partnership flying is still being worked out. They also do not have any precise numbers on what the actual overage is. The number given to me was anywhere from 200-400.

 

[jimntx]

Voluntary Options Open 14JAN/Close 26JAN

Due to a flight attendant overage, the company is announcing three voluntary options being offered to flight attendants to mitigate a possible furlough. These options open January 14, 2009 and include: the Travel Separation Program, Overage Leaves (key and auxiliary block), and Partnership Flying opportunities. Flight attendants who wish to accept one of these offers must do so by 12:00 (noon) CST on Monday, January 26, 2009.

Problems:

There is a link on the Flight Service website which says click here for information about the Travel Separation Program--a term I have never heard before. When you click on the link, it takes you to a Jetnet page with a big red banner heading, PEOPLE REDUCTION PROGRAMS. I couldn't find anything on the page about a Travel Separation program.

Found out from my manager that the Travel Separation program is considered a resignation from the company with no recall. It includes travel benefits for a 5 or 10 year period--probably depending upon length of service. Also found out that the Flight service link to Jetnet takes you to an expired page from the previous reduction in force when the VBRs were offered. Lord forbid that the company would make sure the web links work before putting them out for public consumption.

BTW, Byron. I think whoever told you 200-400 for the overage number was being very optimistic. If it were even 400, why would they have asked for 500 on the PLOA? Also, if they had gotten anywhere near the 500 they wanted, I doubt they would be coming back with this. What little I can find states that people who were awarded a PLOA can convert to an OLOA--only fair since with the OLOA you don't lose seniority or travel benefits.

 

[Skymess]

I do know that the PLOA was not fully subscribed. (What a surprise! ) I've heard from a union base rep that the union and the company are talking about some magical, non-contractual leave that would allow them to avoid going the WARN letter/furlough route. Perhaps a PLOA, but without losing travel benefits and seniority? Wow! What a concept!

Well, they are now calling it an Overage Leave and they also said the F word. (furlough)

How many proffers will they have for leaves before they tell us how many over we are and possibly send out WARN letters?

MODERATOR NOTE: This post through post #7 were moved from the PLOA thread because they related to the new options. The PLOA thread has been closed.

 

[nbmcg01]

A true overage leave doesn't cost you seniority or travel benefits. It is the unions job to negotiate any and evry possibility to save jobs. Maybe this is something the APFA is finally learning.

 

[jaaafa]

After reading the seperation with passes why would anyone take this without some kind of severance,what is the benefit other than passes for 5 or 10 yrs when the people who would like this option can stay with the company a few more yrs perhaps and have passes forever.

 

[jimntx]

Bear in mind that if a f/a has more than 6 years on the payroll, they will draw a pension from AA when they reach the eligible age regardless of how old they are now. I was reading the travel separation document last night--not too closely, I won't live long enough to be eligible for this option.

If a person is within 10 or less years from retirement (minimum age 55), maxxed out on pay, fed up with the job, etc., this option may very well appeal to them. You can still retire when you reach the eligible age, and in the meantime retain your travel benefits while doing something else with your life. (Also, remember that when they officially retire, they will still be eligible for retiree travel benefits.) If you have over 20 years, staying another 10 will probably not increase your pension substantially. It will increase, but will the dollar amount justify 10 more years of work that you don't enjoy any longer?

I know several f/as who are past 40, but not yet 50, who have over 20 years with the company that were upset because the VBR was restricted to people over 50. One said to me, "if they hadn't put that age restriction on it, I would have knocked down my own mother to get to the sign-up sheet."

 

[FA Mikey]

After reading the seperation with passes why would anyone take this without some kind of severance,what is the benefit other than passes for 5 or 10 yrs when the people who would like this option can stay with the company a few more yrs perhaps and have passes forever.

I would have. Had it been offered a few weeks earlier, I would have jumped on it. There are more than a few people I know who have something else who dont want to leave like I did with out anything other than my pension.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

This kind of news makes me even more confused as to why certain industry analysts are predicting a solidly profitable year for both individual airlines and the industry as a whole. Carriers may not be hurting from outrageous fuel costs like they were last summer, but demand has collapsed to the point that airlines still feel the need to shrink.

Best to you all... I hope the WARN letters never come.

 

[Skymess]

A true overage leave doesn't cost you seniority or travel benefits. It is the unions job to negotiate any and evry possibility to save jobs. Maybe this is something the APFA is finally learning.

It would appear that they are learning. However this came about, the recoding to OL from PLOA and the separation with passes program are both brilliant.

 

[jimntx]

The short answer is that AA recalled approx. between July, 2007 and last year in anticipation of a huge buildup in International flying. The precipitous increase in jet fuel prices squashed those plans. In the meantime the economic downturn reduced demand both domestically and International. We reduced seat capacity approx. 12% last year with another 6% planned for this year. Thus, the current overage. The problem we all have right now is we don't know how much of an overage there is. The company hasn't said other than when the PLOA was offered they hoped to get 500 people to take it.

That does not automatically translate into an overage of 500 f/as. It may be greater than that, but the company always plans for normal attrition to take care of some of the overage, if any. We'll just have to wait and see. The magic number for me is 920. If the overage--after these leave options close--is more than 920-925 (can't be exact), I will be included in the furloughs.

Unless you have a snapshot of the seniority list current to the moment, it is impossible to tell how many f/as are above/below you on the list. The last update to the seniority list was in October, 2008. At that time there were 921 people below me on the seniority list. One has to assume that since then, some have probably quit, died, retired, or gotten fired.

 

[kirkpatrick]

Here's something from another site:

I spoke with XXXX XXXX Manager on 1/12/2009
He is in charge of proffered leaves @ Crew Planning and these are the numbers he gave me.

110 proffered for three (3) month PLOA
82 proffered for ten (10) month PLOA
an additional 130 all ready on a leave proffered for the extension
and there were an additonal 22 and I do not remember what category they were in.

The Total was 234 PLOA leaves granted.

I think they'll get what they need, and don't think they'll furlough if they come up 50 or 100 short. PVD's, mini-leaves, bid leaves, etc can take care of small numbers. I'll admit, however, that with 322 under me I'm a bit nervous.

 

[jimntx]

Mark, thanks for the info. I knew that they didn't get what they needed. I didn't know that it had fallen that short. (You can't really count the 130 that were already out on leave. They wanted an additional 500.) Nice thing is that those who were awarded PLOAs can also proffer for the OLOA. If they can hold the OLOA, they won't lose benefits and seniority.

 

[topcat]

we all need a reminder that the opt I and opt II flying that existed while we have ANY FURLOUGHS is NUTs!!!!
and the experiment for the RSV to fly more..will all cause more furloughs..this UNION should be telling us not to fly these trips...the fall backs from International who are now on domestic...while the opt I II flying or RSV able to fly more trips..this also keeps those who want to go back to international...from getting back .....am I correct? In April the DOT is set to pass the BA/AA along w/IBERIA...so I am guessing...soon the british are coming...and we may even see LESS International flying...just a guessing

 

[czerny]

Jim, just got off the phone with APFA contract desk. The most junior active FA is standing at 17215. I barely have 587 people beneath me. The number of overage given to me today is the same as it was yesterday. "ballpark figure of between 200-400." I also found out that the people who put in for PLOAs need to be able to hold the OVL at their respective base in order for their PLOA to be converted to an OVL. This is info from the rep I just spoke to, so if anyone on this board has anything different, by all means, let us know.

If anyone is thinking of taking an OVL or applying for the Travel Separation, you have my utmost gratitude and thanks.