OVL leaves/partnership flying and Travel Separation options

[Flyboy4u]

You evidently have never been based at DFW where the numbers who don't want to fly, but will neither quit nor retire, are legion.

We've even got some at SLT that drop every trip every month (or as many as they can). If all those who don't want to fly actually left (by whatever means) we would not only not be offering leaves, we would be hiring again.

I could't have said it better myself...Thank you Jim for speaking the truth!

 

[Maark767]

You evidently have never been based at DFW where the numbers who don't want to fly, but will neither quit nor retire, are legion.

We've even got some at SLT that drop every trip every month (or as many as they can). If all those who don't want to fly actually left (by whatever means) we would not only not be offering leaves, we would be hiring again.

Sure go ahead and strip more of the flexibility away. If you haven't noticed this sure is a nice perk to the job. Where can you find a job that allows this much flexibility???? Plus if we did not have the F/As dropping trips , where would we be able to make extra money??? You have to look at the whole picture here, not just from a junior F/As view. Now that's well said.....

 

[jimntx]

The only problem with that argument is that the people who most need to pick up trips are on Availability every month now, except their reserve months. They have no way of picking up trips bcause the APFA doesn't give a crap about people on Availability since the vaunted SENIOR f/as don't have to fly it.

They don't care that Crew Planning builds the Availability lines such that it is almost impossible to pick up trips on your days off, and since scheduling puts almost no open trips into open time until the day before the trip, there is little to no opportunity to trade with anything--Open Time or HIBOARD. And, only a person of limited intelligence would OE trips on a regular basis. The whole point of flying high time is to get the premium pay for over 70 hours.

I don't know about other bases, but other than the few who drop everything every month (remember, we is a small base), the other trips posted in HIBOARD are put there by f/as with no contact with reality--"want higher time turn than the 7.30 turn they already have; no signin before 1000, must be back by 1800; No #1." Most of the people trading with Open Time in SLT are lineholders with the crappy lines who trade for better trips--not necessarily more time--if one should accidentally drop into OT.

I hope you are still doing the Flexibility-Shmexibility cheer when all the more junior f/as have either quit or been furloughed, and you are back on reserve. If you think it can't happen, I was talking with a f/a in ops at ORD late last month who is back on reserve for February for the first time in 22 years. And, I know of at least one very good f/a at St. Louis who is planning to quit if we don't get off availability soon. Let's face it AVBL is nothing more than AAdvantage Gold reserve.

If the APFA would at least push the company to put Availability lines back on the bidsheet where we might have some control over our schedules, it would be livable. But, we don't know our schedule until the bid runs are complete. The only thing that you can be sure of is that if you have vacation, they will build you an AVBL line that has as many days off during your vacation period as they possibly can so you won't get paid for most of your vacation days--another issue that the APFA doesn't care about.

 

[FA Mikey]

It is glorified reserve and it is JR. Back when I was flying it, we had a lot more flexibility and myself and many others used it to lock up our schedules in the first 12 or days of the month. Great for us bad for the company and the reserves.

We took all the open time and trips and then the second half of the month they had to have enough time built in to the reserve pool to cover the rest of the month. There is the problem with having it that open. Until there is a way to even out the time taken by reserves and AVBL so one side is not heavy for one half the month and he other for the other one half the month. There is going to be a problem. The only other solution is to turn AVBL in to the reserve pool.

 

[jimntx]

Yes, and back in the good old days when I was based at DFW (2000-2003), I would bid Availability during ski season, fly my fanny off for two weeks, then go skiing the rest of the month.

They are not trying to balance anything. They simply hold all open trips out of open time until the day prior to the trip. This prevents people from plotting enough trips on their schedule to be able to trade with HIBOARD and Open Time and get maxxed out. If you look at open time on any day there will be a bunch of AXs between 0800 and 0900 (open time doesn't get any trips until after 8am now). Then any trips that are not picked up voluntarily by availability f/as are assigned to other available f/as at 12 noon. A lot of days go by that there are NO reserve assignments until the day of the trip. At 7pm the night before all trips have either been assigned to avbl or MU.

It prevents anyone on AVBL from having any kind of a life. People are getting sick of it and are quitting (or thinking about it). The senior f/as who hold on to their precious "flexibility" are going to find themselves back on reserve because they are the most junior f/as in their base. Enjoy.

 

[Skymess]

Yes, and back in the good old days when I was based at DFW (2000-2003), I would bid Availability during ski season, fly my fanny off for two weeks, then go skiing the rest of the month.

They are not trying to balance anything. They simply hold all open trips out of open time until the day prior to the trip. This prevents people from plotting enough trips on their schedule to be able to trade with HIBOARD and Open Time and get maxxed out. If you look at open time on any day there will be a bunch of AXs between 0800 and 0900 (open time doesn't get any trips until after 8am now). Then any trips that are not picked up voluntarily by availability f/as are assigned to other available f/as at 12 noon. A lot of days go by that there are NO reserve assignments until the day of the trip. At 7pm the night before all trips have either been assigned to avbl or MU.

It prevents anyone on AVBL from having any kind of a life. People are getting sick of it and are quitting (or thinking about it). The senior f/as who hold on to their precious "flexibility" are going to find themselves back on reserve because they are the most junior f/as in their base. Enjoy.

Jim,

Any argument for change will be a solution to a certain group of flight attendants. The problem is finding a solution that is good for all or, at least, most flight attendants.

While you argue that dropping trips isn't good for junior people other people think that they shouldn't offer leaves and should just furlough if we have too many people in order to just free up trips for everyone else to be able to freely trade.

Getting rid of avbl sounds great to others because it will make OT more accesible to all.

These are weird times in the industry, and at our company, and we definitely need our union people to think outside the box a little in order to tweak the things we do have.

I am personally in favor of a suggestion you made two posts ago. The union should force the company to make avbl lines, just like reserve lines, so that you know exactly what line you are bidding instead of having them blindly throw bs at you. Those sob's at planning know exactly what days they need people and they should put that in print on lines.

We should also have the ability to trade avbl days with each other. Why should it matter to them if you are covering that day or someone else is?

 

[Maark767]

The only problem with that argument is that the people who most need to pick up trips are on Availability every month now, except their reserve months. They have no way of picking up trips bcause the APFA doesn't give a crap about people on Availability since the vaunted SENIOR f/as don't have to fly it.

They don't care that Crew Planning builds the Availability lines such that it is almost impossible to pick up trips on your days off, and since scheduling puts almost no open trips into open time until the day before the trip, there is little to no opportunity to trade with anything--Open Time or HIBOARD. And, only a person of limited intelligence would OE trips on a regular basis. The whole point of flying high time is to get the premium pay for over 70 hours.

I don't know about other bases, but other than the few who drop everything every month (remember, we is a small base), the other trips posted in HIBOARD are put there by f/as with no contact with reality--"want higher time turn than the 7.30 turn they already have; no signin before 1000, must be back by 1800; No #1." Most of the people trading with Open Time in SLT are lineholders with the crappy lines who trade for better trips--not necessarily more time--if one should accidentally drop into OT.

I hope you are still doing the Flexibility-Shmexibility cheer when all the more junior f/as have either quit or been furloughed, and you are back on reserve. If you think it can't happen, I was talking with a f/a in ops at ORD late last month who is back on reserve for February for the first time in 22 years. And, I know of at least one very good f/a at St. Louis who is planning to quit if we don't get off availability soon. Let's face it AVBL is nothing more than AAdvantage Gold reserve.

If the APFA would at least push the company to put Availability lines back on the bidsheet where we might have some control over our schedules, it would be livable. But, we don't know our schedule until the bid runs are complete. The only thing that you can be sure of is that if you have vacation, they will build you an AVBL line that has as many days off during your vacation period as they possibly can so you won't get paid for most of your vacation days--another issue that the APFA doesn't care about.

APFA is not GOD.... Have you ever thought the company may be playing with AVBL lines..... It's not always the Big BAAD union that has control.... Believe it or not AA controls more than you think.....
I bet if we did not have a union .. Our work life would be so much better.... We dont need this union...AA would just hand over better pay, work rules, sick time.... the list goes on..... YEAH RIGHT !!!!! VOTE UNION !!!!

 

[czerny]

APFA is not GOD.... Have you ever thought the company may be playing with AVBL lines..... It's not always the Big BAAD union that has control.... Believe it or not AA controls more than you think.....
I bet if we did not have a union .. Our work life would be so much better.... We dont need this union...AA would just hand over better pay, work rules, sick time.... the list goes on..... YEAH RIGHT !!!!! VOTE UNION !!!!

There's 2 sides to everything. Most of my roommates at my cpad are Delta Flight Attendants. They have more flexibility with their schedule than we do. They don't pay trip traders and they can freely pickup int. or domestic and trade with OT anytime, any day. And, they don't want a union. They find it absolutely apalling that DEL costs $65.00 to pick up if you are junior at IOR. APFA needs to work to represent fas at all seniorities. We haven't hired in eight years. The union wants a dues increase but as I told Juan Barerra, I cannot afford to shelve out more money than what they are taking out of my paycheck every month. And for what? I don't call in sick, I'm not late for work, I don't steal and plunder the aircraft, I wear my uniform the way it's supposed to, and yet as a CM junior speaker, they have done absolutely nothing for me. In fact, case in point, a senior IOR fa who held Del took my LHR out of HIBOARD when I specifically stated, "TT ONLY" for another trip, and the union rep I called blamed me for keeping my TT open. I had to dig my heels in and insist that the trip be returned to me with full pay. Now, tell me, who's representing who?

 

[Maark767]

There's 2 sides to everything. Most of my roommates at my cpad are Delta Flight Attendants. They have more flexibility with their schedule than we do. They don't pay trip traders and they can freely pickup int. or domestic and trade with OT anytime, any day. And, they don't want a union. They find it absolutely apalling that DEL costs $65.00 to pick up if you are junior at IOR. APFA needs to work to represent fas at all seniorities. We haven't hired in eight years. The union wants a dues increase but as I told Juan Barerra, I cannot afford to shelve out more money than what they are taking out of my paycheck every month. And for what? I don't call in sick, I'm not late for work, I don't steal and plunder the aircraft, I wear my uniform the way it's supposed to, and yet as a CM junior speaker, they have done absolutely nothing for me. In fact, case in point, a senior IOR fa who held Del took my LHR out of HIBOARD when I specifically stated, "TT ONLY" for another trip, and the union rep I called blamed me for keeping my TT open. I had to dig my heels in and insist that the trip be returned to me with full pay. Now, tell me, who's representing who?

They have done nothing for you???? Do you have pension??? YES Who got you that ???? APFA .... Do Delta F/As have a pension???? NO !!! It was yanked in BK , no questions aked...
You really must be in another world if you think this job would be as it is, if it were up to AA. Do you really think AA has your best interest at hand???? The union has fought for many years to get us good work rules and pay..
Delts F/As have incentive pay???? NO !!!! AA f/As do.... Who got us that ???? APFA..... Did AA give us incentive pay??? NO !!! We fought for it.... Please open your eyes.....

 

[jimntx]

APFA is not GOD.... Have you ever thought the company may be playing with AVBL lines..... It's not always the Big BAAD union that has control.... Believe it or not AA controls more than you think.....

As usual, you are so busy looking down that superior, SENIOR, nose of yours that you missed the whole point of my post. I didn't say that the union had any control over the issue. The union has a don't care, do-nothing attitude about the availability situation because 30-year f/as (who are the only ones who count, of course) don't have to fly it. The union does nothing about trying to improve the situation, and further more has made it clear to me that they have no intention of doing anything about it. They have more important fish to fry. Do you realize that the company is trying to change the rules and say that if you want to call yourself a flight attendant, you have to actually fly???? On airplanes that have those nasty passengers on them!!!! Oh, the horror of it all.

 

[Maark767]

As usual, you are so busy looking down that superior, SENIOR, nose of yours that you missed the whole point of my post. I didn't say that the union had any control over the issue. The union has a don't care, do-nothing attitude about the availability situation because 30-year f/as (who are the only ones who count, of course) don't have to fly it. The union does nothing about trying to improve the situation, and further more has made it clear to me that they have no intention of doing anything about it. They have more important fish to fry. Do you realize that the company is trying to change the rules and say that if you want to call yourself a flight attendant, you have to actually fly???? On airplanes that have those nasty passengers on them!!!! Oh, the horror of it all.

I heard your post load and clear.....
Go work in an office if you want little flexibility in your work life......
This job has great options ... We must fight to keep what we have. Try that approach...

 

[jimntx]

I heard your post load and clear.....

???? :huh:

 

[aredeeyou22]

There's 2 sides to everything.

. They find it absolutely apalling that DEL costs $65.00 to pick up if you are junior at IOR. APFA needs to work to represent fas at all seniorities.

Wait. I'm confused. At AA, FA's pay money to pick up a trip that they have to work? Please explain further.

 

[czerny]

Wait. I'm confused. At AA, FA's pay money to pick up a trip that they have to work? Please explain further.

Before I even got to IOR, I received a "price list" from one of the bid services. There was a price for every trip. Europe, esp. LHR/DUB would cost me $25.00 to "buy" the trip from the bid service. DEL/NRT/PVG were and still are the primo trips at IOR and while I was based there, I could never afford nor would I consider paying to pick up a trip from a trip trade service. I actually flew to NRT on rsv. with a flight attendant who paid the trip trade service $65.00 to be on that trip. The seniors get their schedules done for free by the trip trade services who then turn around and sell their trips to poor, desperate juniors who were willing to pay an arm and a leg just to work a trip to DEL or NRT. That is not right and APFA is doing nothing about this.

BTW, I'm too young to apply for a pension and I seriously doubt my generation would get to see and receive a pension. At least, I'm not counting on that. The union rep at IOR who reprimanded me for keeping myself in TT mode for the senior FA to steal my LHR out of HIBOARD obviously cared more about the senior fas at her base than a junior CM speaker like myself. I had to ask a supervisor to get my trip back on my schedule with full pay. A union should represent and be fair to all members at all seniorities, and currently I don't get that from the APFA. I shouldn't have to go to a supervisor to right a wrong. My trip was stolen from me and I refuse to take it back as an OE(Optional Exchange) with loss of incentive pay.

 

[jimntx]

Well Byron, you should be ashamed of yourself for reporting a trip theft by a SENIOR f/a. Reporting such things is ok only if the thief is junior to you. If you report a senior f/a, what might happen to flexibility? I think you should just go get a job in an office somewhere.