PHL flight cuts

[Travelpro72]

I don't want to contribute to any possible rumor about WN cutting flights between the market but I sure do hear of A LOT of our employees hopping rides on them. I know full flights don't' always mean profitable but I sure do know a plane with 30/40 open seats between PIT-PHL isn't either. They have LOTS of open seats that help out those that commute between the two cities. I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[does this plane go to paris]

WN went to PHL to kill US. They did not expect them to be around at all. In fact, WN will tell you that PHL was there biggest money making operation of all new stations. They were making so much money that they had to eliminate US. Then the AWA/US merger was announced and their CEO was pissed. If WN was making money on those routes then they would keep them, regardless of any gate issues. They have 8 gates so that's plenty. Now WN is facing strong competitors and learning that it's hard to beat them in a superhub. I think it's wonderful that WN is dropping flights in PHL.

The comment about WN entering PHL and killing US was quoted by the head of US. WN's push into the Northeast corridor had nothing to do with killing the competion. The CEO of WN was not pissed when the AWA/US merger was announced. If anything, she was amused. Doug Parker called the merger "Operation Bar Bell" combining two carrier's that had been concetrating on different coasts. I believe that the CEO of WN, Colleen Barrett referred to the merger as "operation dumb bell" As it's played, she's been proven right, the synergies have not arrived, the merger is not complete and because of the fiasco that's been created, DL and NW refused to join until the pilot's agreed and WN refused to sign off on F9 until their pilots agreed as well. The rest of the industry has learned a valuable lesson at Doug's expense. Finally, WN has been competing in superhubs for years, IAH, DTW and if you count AWA's, PHX and LAS.

 

[USFlyer]

WN was losing money on PHL-CMH. WN tried to stimulate business with fare sales and the like but was never able to capture enough traffic on that route.

I also disagree on the synergy discussion re: HP-US. Sure, the pilots and FAs are still separate, but as a passenger I've found the CLT-PHL-PHX-LAS hub structure very convenient, and US has gained some business as a result. To any passenger who doesn't read this board, the airline is one and operates as such.

 

[Hello Newman]

I don't want to contribute to any possible rumor about WN cutting flights between the market but I sure do hear of A LOT of our employees hopping rides on them. I know full flights don't' always mean profitable but I sure do know a plane with 30/40 open seats between PIT-PHL isn't either. They have LOTS of open seats that help out those that commute between the two cities. I wouldn't be surprised.

I did a lot of non-reving on Metrojet back between 1998-2001 and always carried backup passes on WN, Got denied on Metrojet a few times, but always got on WN flights even after WN employees, if only US hadn't backed and ran.

 

[PowerUpPowerDown]

The only major airport that WN pulled out of that I'm aware of is SFO which has PHL like delay problems.

WN due to the way it does business and its cost structure has the financial clout to operate wherever it wants for as long as it wants.

In troubled times any airline would take their resources where they can get the greatest return with the least disruption. WN has backed off in the east because there are frankly easier fish to fry elsewhere

WN has also pulled completely out of IAH due to CO several years ago. They also pulled out of Denver several years ago and are now back.

 

[signals]

My opinion is that the airlines are streamlining or cutting the fat.

 

[jimntx]

WN has also pulled completely out of IAH due to CO several years ago. They also pulled out of Denver several years ago and are now back.

Not really true. WN pulled out of IAH--all 8 flights/day--right after 9/11 when we were all cutting flights left and right. Granted those 8 flights were not setting any financial records, but then they all were IAH-DAL IIRC. And, back then the Wright Amendment was in full force; so, to go anywhere beyond the perimeter, you had to have a separate ticket and change planes at the boundary city--i.e., IAH-DAL-TUL, new ticket to get to MCI. It was better to make the drive down to Hobby if you wanted to travel on WN--many, many more options.

 

[FutureUScapt]

Yes, the WN cutbacks in PHL are mostly because of the gate issue, some people are just not with reality and would LOVE to think that WN is running from US in PHL.

WN has access to the same amount of gates (8) now as they did before the construction at the end of E started.


When I posted my first post, I wasn't necessarily suggesting that US was running the OAs out of PHL, (though that probably is the case in some instances), I was just listing several of the cuts that have been made recently in PHL. As other posters have suggested, yes, carriers are "cutting the fat" or "redeploying aircraft to other markets," but when you do that, you don't just pick any random route to cut, you choose the worst performing ones (for whatever the reason may be)

That said its quite obvious that WN is not finding PHL to be quite the cake walk that they were hoping for. It's going to be inherently more difficult for them to be as successful in fortress-hub type markets (PHL, MSP, etc) than it is in medium-sized markets where there is not a clear dominant carrier. This doesn't apply to the leisure-oriented markets like LAS and FL so much as it does to the more business-oriented ones (aka PHL-BDL/CMH).

 

[FutureUScapt]

Also in regards to the PIT commuters, WN just recently cut the number of n/s from 5 to 4 (from a high of 7). I can't imagine that they'll cut back any further unless they decide to drop the route entirely.

 

[a320av8r]

Also in regards to the PIT commuters, WN just recently cut the number of n/s from 5 to 4 (from a high of 7). I can't imagine that they'll cut back any further unless they decide to drop the route entirely.

WN is also reducing PHL RDU service in Nov to 4 RT/day from the current 5 and a high of 7.
Additionaly, WN reducing MCO RDU from 5 to 3 R/T day.

 

[curious1]

The comment about WN entering PHL and killing US was quoted by the head of US. WN's push into the Northeast corridor had nothing to do with killing the competion. The CEO of WN was not pissed when the AWA/US merger was announced. If anything, she was amused. Doug Parker called the merger "Operation Bar Bell" combining two carrier's that had been concetrating on different coasts. I believe that the CEO of WN, Colleen Barrett referred to the merger as "operation dumb bell" As it's played, she's been proven right, the synergies have not arrived, the merger is not complete and because of the fiasco that's been created, DL and NW refused to join until the pilot's agreed and WN refused to sign off on F9 until their pilots agreed as well. The rest of the industry has learned a valuable lesson at Doug's expense. Finally, WN has been competing in superhubs for years, IAH, DTW and if you count AWA's, PHX and LAS.

Colleen Barrett was president, not the CEO. The CEO is Gary Kelly and he went on a lot of TV shows saying that this deal wouldn't work. Well he was wrong. He also said that his number 1 goal was to get more gates in PHL (he wanted to eliminate US) I talked to some WN employees during that time and they were upset about the AWA/US merger. They wanted it to fail because they all thought that they would get PHL.
I have no respect for a president of an airline calling that "operation dumb bell" just like I never have respect for anyone calling Southwest "Southworst". That is conduct unbecoming of an airline president. If you need to trash your competitor then that means that your own product must be lacking in many ways.
I loved the WN that was run under Herb Kelleher. This current CEO is very cocky.

Remember that for 2 years US was the most profitable airline on earth (excluding accounting for fuel hedges), even more profitable than WN for the first 2 years.

About the pilot seniority thing, that's not Doug Parker's fault. And remember when DL and NW merged their pilots they had to buy them off. They gave them a big raise. The merger would not have happened if the greedy NW pilots didn't join DL management. All NW employees were against the DL merger. If Parker merges his pilots then he'll have to give them a raise. He's saving money by letting them fight it out. The only thing stopping the pilot merger is the East pilots. This issue had been settled by an arbitraitor. The WN/F9 acquisition supposedly was killed by the pilots, but if WN wanted to get Frontier they would have done it and they should have done it. Pilots were just the scapegoat.

One more point. If an airline like WN is run off of a route like CMH-PHL by the dominant carrier like US, they very, very rarely say that their opponent was too strong. They will blame high fuel prices, lack of gate space, etc. They will never, if ever say that the dominant carrier ran them off. If PHL-CMH, PHL-BDL, PHL-LAX, PHL-OAK, PHL-SAT made money then those flights would still be around. WN always finds a way to get more gates. LGA might be more challenging since DL took the extra gates away from US which was the only carrier that would have given WN gates.

I know a lot of people love to hate USAirways but they are a good airline. People have counted them out for the count for years and they are still around and strong. Hurray for USAirways!
That's just my 2 cents.

 

[wings396]

I agree with your commnets about SWA and PHL. They are in the process of consolidationg gates into one terminal, but won't have a slew of new gates as a result. They will have most of "E" except for 2 gates that will be used by AirTran. They will leave all of the gates they currently use in "D", so this won't amount to much else than operationg out of a single gate area. I have seen the "cattle" lined up out at the curb waiting to check bags, and it's a mess to say the least. I have witnessed their ticket agents in action, and they were nothing to brag about either. While SWA is a good solid company, they have basically "Walmarted" the Airline industry over the last 10-15 years. As time goes on, their costs will rise due to a more senoir workforce demanding a higher wage with each new contract. As long as SWA is profitalbe, it will be a hard sell to their employees as to why they can't have a wage increase. Hopefully US has finally slowed SWA down a bit in PHL, and hopefully they will again meet their match in LGA with DL and a few others. No matter who you are, you can only pick so many fights with the big-boys before it comes back to haunt you. I'm not wishing any bad to SWA or their employees, but they need to be tamed from thinking that they can come into anyones backyard and take what they want just because they are SWA. Their rapid expansion will continue to eat at their bottom line as time goes on. The huge fine they got slapped with over Mtc. issues is just the first shoe to drop. Fuel hedge advantage is gone, the Pilots reject a contract offer, and so on.

 

[john john]

Yes, the WN cutbacks in PHL are mostly because of the gate issue, some people are just not with reality and would LOVE to think that WN is running from US in PHL.

A strategy for SOME airlines is get all the real-estate/slots at airports as possible as a result keeping out competition

 

[nycbusdriver]

I agree with your commnets about SWA and PHL. They are in the process of consolidationg gates into one terminal, but won't have a slew of new gates as a result. They will have most of "E" except for 2 gates that will be used by AirTran. They will leave all of the gates they currently use in "D", so this won't amount to much else than operationg out of a single gate area. I have seen the "cattle" lined up out at the curb waiting to check bags, and it's a mess to say the least. I have witnessed their ticket agents in action, and they were nothing to brag about either. While SWA is a good solid company, they have basically "Walmarted" the Airline industry over the last 10-15 years....

Cattle cars, cutsie announcements, etc. SWA is the master at managing expectations and manipulating perception. You saw those "cattle" lined up, but why do they keep coming back? SWA basically has sold everyone that rides them on the concept that they are getting the lowest price because of the no-frills crap they espouse. So, if their passengers don't get treated like cattle, they imagine that they are not getting their "good" deal.

Yes, they have "Wal-Marted" the airline industry. Last time I drove past a Wal-Mart parking lot, the store seemed pretty well attended. Cheap works if that's what your customer expects with commensurate treatment.