Pilot and Mechanic Shortage

[Overspeed]

I don't think stating that we took a 25% cut is exaggerating. 17% in wages, loss of vacation, loss of 5 holidays. I'm sure there's more, but suffice to say it's not an overstatement.

Actually when I was a rep Little hired a company called ECLAT to evaluate the actual value per member lost. ECLAT stated that the wage concessions plus higher premiums for benefits came out to 22.5%. The real story was that management gave up much less. When confronted Carty stated shared sacrifice never meant equal sacrifice. Ouch! Bad thing was his behavior was rewarded with another senior level job at Virgin America. Welcome to the good old boys club.

 

[Buck]

Actually when I was a rep Little hired a company called ECLAT to evaluate the actual value per member lost. ECLAT stated that the wage concessions plus higher premiums for benefits came out to 22.5%. The real story was that management gave up much less. When confronted Carty stated shared sacrifice never meant equal sacrifice. Ouch! Bad thing was his behavior was rewarded with another senior level job at Virgin America. Welcome to the good old boys club.

And those mechanics bumped to OSM who were earning their license premium? What was their total concession?

 

[Tex-Mech]

Actually when I was a rep Little hired a company called ECLAT to evaluate the actual value per member lost. ECLAT stated that the wage concessions plus higher premiums for benefits came out to 22.5%. The real story was that management gave up much less. When confronted Carty stated shared sacrifice never meant equal sacrifice. Ouch! Bad thing was his behavior was rewarded with another senior level job at Virgin America. Welcome to the good old boys club.

And ECLAT was hired by the company prior to Little hiring them to give the unions the company sales pitch on concessions 9 months earlier. Little was so impressed with the sales pitch he hired them for the union and got some Fleet guy a job with them. So about that good old boys club.

 

[Bob Owens]

You were the one who overstated AAR's pre-tax income by 28% (almost $31 million), but that's SOP for you, given your constant exaggeration of the size of your 2003 concessions. Seriously, you really ought to take a course in reading financial statements. After taxes, the company only made $70 million, not really outstanding profits on their $1.8 billion of revenue. Please forgive me, as I forgot that profits are evil. Nobody is entitled to earn profits off the backs of working men and women. All companies must increase wage expenses until they merely break even.

Show me where I said pretax profits.

As far as what we gave up how do you figure it's an exaggeration? You don't even know what we gave up. Then there was the scam they called a roll up adjustment that understated what we gave up.

There is a difference between " can't" and " won't " . If a company is showing profits and they say can't increase wages they are lying they just don't want to because they want to keep those profits for themselves.

So you are resorting to arguing against things I did not say and going off on Bill O'Rielly type rants, followed up by personal attacks. That makes me smile because i know I got you and your bruised ego has overwhelmed your determination to come across as some learned patriarchal unbiased observer.

 

[nevergiveup]

Have all of the AA pilots been offered recall?

 

[Super FLUF]

Have all of the AA pilots been offered recall?

No. Still a few hundred to go. Recall classes have been suspended. Management currently claiming that they will re-start again in February. Horton recently was in MIA and told the troops there that furloughs were "a possibility". Factoring in things like current understaffing, retirements, FAR changes, and an upcoming training bubble, the conventional wisdom amongst the troops is that they will not happen.

 

[FWAAA]

Show me where I said pretax profits.

You didn't. You just said "profits." Dunno where, exactly, you found the number, but the $138 million was operating income, which isn't really proifts, since it doesn't include the very real expense of interest. I assume you count your mortgage interest in determining your annual household "profits." When most people use the word "profit," they mean profits after paying the necessary bills.

As far as what we gave up how do you figure it's an exaggeration? You don't even know what we gave up. Then there was the scam they called a roll up adjustment that understated what we gave up.

You're right - your concessions are whatever you say they are.

There is a difference between " can't" and " won't " . If a company is showing profits and they say can't increase wages they are lying they just don't want to because they want to keep those profits for themselves.

Some companies operate under the principle of preserving shareholder value, and not engaging in unprofitable activity. If AAR can't attract enough qualified people at its current wages, it could increase wages (harming those profits) or it could eventually exit the business. The existence of so many off-shore MROs that undercut the AARs and Timcos on price prevent AAR from raising its prices.

So you are resorting to arguing against things I did not say and going off on Bill O'Rielly type rants, followed up by personal attacks. That makes me smile because i know I got you and your bruised ego has overwhelmed your determination to come across as some learned patriarchal unbiased observer.

You're funny. My bruised ego? You think my post was a Bill O'Reilly rant? Take a deep breath, Bob and relax. I'm not trying to attack you ad hominem, I'm trying to point out your deficiencies in critical thinking - hoping that you'll improve those skills - success on that front might improve your skills as a negotiator, eventually leading to that $50/hr that your constituents deserve. Learn to read the financials. Become familiar with the terms. Improve your chances for success.

 

[Buck]

Mid-Skills Gap in Middle America: Buliding Today's Workforce

 

[Birdman]

Mid-Skills Gap in Middle America: Buliding Today's Workforce

Some here, while ignoring like articles, claim AA will do away with a/o to relieve themselves of the supposed high costs of maintaining their own aircraft. I'm under no illusion that there is no fat to trim in a/o, but to outsource heavy maintenance just ignores the realities in the current marketplace.

 

[Buck]

Some here, while ignoring like articles, claim AA will do away with a/o to relieve themselves of the supposed high costs of maintaining their own aircraft. I'm under no illusion that there is no fat to trim in a/o, but to outsource heavy maintenance just ignores the realities in the current marketplace.

There are some very interesting quotes in the report, but the core seems to lean on the lack of skilled, licensed technicians and the lack of an educational system to introduce and train for mid-level careers beginning as early as elementart school.

I believe the Germans run such a program, through aptitude testing and skill training, whereby technicians can be placed at certain levels based on their abilities to comprehend. ( yea 1984 ) then place in a blue collar or white collar direction.

 

[Bob Owens]

The existence of so many off-shore MROs that undercut the AARs and Timcos on price prevent AAR from raising its prices.

But not their wages.
AAR can raise wages, they choose to keep their profit margins higher instead. It's conceivable that they could increase wages and profits but the margins would be thinner. Instead they are complaining, likely in the hopes that some politician will try and do something to increase the supply or maybe as an excuse to ship the work overseas .

Like I said they can raise wages, they just don't want to. It's not realistic for employers to think that workers will continue to bear the costs of inflation without fighting back, either through unions or by not making their skills available to employers who are just plain greedy. If an employer shows profits that means hat he generated enough income to not only cover inflation generated losses but hod money left over.

As working people continue to suffer, and corporations continue to sit on huge piles of cash, even going into BK while sitting on $4 billion, more and more movements will sprout up and eventually, if the issues are not addressed it will result in interruptions to commerce.

 

[TWU informer]

If something like this were to come to fruition then there would be some Pilot and Mechanic openings

The Future?

 

[787nightmare]

If something like this were to come to fruition then there would be some Pilot and Mechanic openings

The Future?

Pretty wild........rumour around Boeing, Allen was interested in the 6th 787 FT aircraft(ZA006-one I was involved with).

 

[Wretched Wrench]

The best way to deal with a shortage of qualified employees is to lower the definition of qualified.

(As Slick Willy exemplified, changing the meaning of any term changes the game).

A company will have no problem hiring cheaper employees if the standards are lowered. AA pioneered the junior mechanic, two-tier wage scale, SRPs, OSMs, and a general relaxation of required qualifications for hiring. This goes back to the early '60s for mechanics. Perhaps even before.........................I am not sure when the junior mechanic program was put in place. Perhaps someone older or better informed than I could answer that.

I have no doubt that any pilot shortage could be alleviated by lowering the standards for hiring.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I have no doubt that any pilot shortage could be alleviated by lowering the standards for hiring.

Probably won't have to do that. The so-called experts have been saying a pilot shortage was looming since I entered the industry 35 years ago. The big airlines won't be the first to feel a pilot shortage if one does ever appear. It's the RJ/turboprop operators who will feel it.

Jim