The shortage is coming and not from bob

Hackman

Veteran
Sep 30, 2003
3,998
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It's one thing to have the ability to send overhauls out when you don't have the base infrastructure, and yet another when you do.

Lots of other differences in the contract; you're bright - go read them for yourself and see which one micro-manages what the company controls and has lots & lots of protective language. Retirement is just one aspect when you look at benefits. Retiree medical is another. Essentially, no ties or obligations to retirees except travel.

I totally agree with you on the exec compensation. That's covered in the book under the chapter titled "How not to poison the well of labor relations beyond repair".

I don't think the guys at AA read that far.
Your right, the outsourcing of expensive aircraft to 3rd world countries is rather foolish when you have a maintenance infrastructure, akin to taking your Bugatti to Pep Boys, who I wouldn't let touch my lawn mower. Then add in the ever present terrorist threat, the unlicensed mechanics, drug testing, and the fact that control over the aircraft check time line is mostly lost, hard to see any benefits except the debatable low up front costs. Even the state side 3rd party chop shops are wringing their hands finding ways to attract any talent, talked to a coworker tonight who's brother works in SAT for 3rd party maintenance, they are offering $2000 bonuses for anyone hired by an employee recommendation being that they are qualified and drug tested. He's also making more than we are with his per-diem, but no medical.

I have read some of the WN contract, and if there is any micro-management it is the AA/twu ambiguous language, as they like it. Where do you think the phrase "They can do that brother" comes from? Not to mention the twu secret side letters of agreement, the deals done behind closed doors with the twu International sellouts. I wanted your examples of what you find that is so restrictive at WN/AMFA that isn't covered in the AA/twu agreement, I think AA has it covered and then some.

As far as the WN lack of retiree medical, easy to explain that one. When your 401k has 7 figures plus upon retirement, and you make over 6 figures, I surmise it's not too difficult to buy a nice policy that will cover your entire family....and not worry about the house payment, or much else.
 

787nightmare

Veteran
Aug 28, 2010
722
153
Southwest says the following about its maintenance in its annual 10-K:



That doesn't sound like WN is doing its heavy airframe overhaul in-house, but maybe WN is not describing its maintenance activities accurately in its 10-K. Not all airframe maintenance is performed in El Salavador, but it doesn't sound like any Heavy C checks (or D checks) are performed in DAL by WN mechanics.

They can only do 4, max allowed per there contract.
I will find out for sure, just what they do or don't do in-house.
I'm pretty sure WN does not do any component OH(ie eng shop/OH, IDGs, seats, valves-pneu/hyd, O2 shop, etc,etc).
I know they do have a few heavy lines going in DAL, & do phase check cards in HOU, DAL and PHX on overnighters

They have a very streamlined operation as well as motivated and competent group of mechanics at that airline.
And there 401k is very attractive. Many people are doing quite well there.
 

Overspeed

Veteran
Jun 27, 2011
3,245
1,120
They can only do 4, max allowed per there contract.
I will find out for sure, just what they do or don't do in-house.
I'm pretty sure WN does not do any component OH(ie eng shop/OH, IDGs, seats, valves-pneu/hyd, O2 shop, etc,etc).
I know they do have a few heavy lines going in DAL, & do phase check cards in HOU, DAL and PHX on overnighters

They have a very streamlined operation as well as motivated and competent group of mechanics at that airline.
And there 401k is very attractive. Many people are doing quite well there.

They do up to HC in DAL with HOU and PHX doing up to LC but they work that in with what AA calls a BC in phases. ATS and AAR IND do LC and HC for SWA. Aeroman just started doing LC and HC. Check AW&ST MRO Prospector for all their work that's outsourced. Looks like all engines are power by the hour and landing gears are outsourced as well.
 

787nightmare

Veteran
Aug 28, 2010
722
153
They do up to HC in DAL with HOU and PHX doing up to LC but they work that in with what AA calls a BC in phases. ATS and AAR IND do LC and HC for SWA. Aeroman just started doing LC and HC. Check AW&ST MRO Prospector for all their work that's outsourced. Looks like all engines are power by the hour and landing gears are outsourced as well.

Per my source...

Component mx goes to vendors. They have a slide shop in Dallas and an engine shop that removes accessories before the engine goes out for overhaul and then reinstalls once the engine comes back from G/E.

Internally they do “C” checks and structural visits. Dallas has 3 structural lines and a “C” check line that will start on Aug. 22. He thinks they're are running about 26 lines of MX right now with most going to the MRO’s (ATS-PAE, AAR-IND, TIMCO-GSO and Aeroman). The fleet is on an MSG-3 MX program so the term “D” check is not used. They go through “Y” checks, example: 10Y, 15Y, 20Y, with Y meaning year. So a 20Y is a 20-year check. Some of the -300’s are up to 25Y and 26Y checks. The Company is looking to accelerate the retirement of the 300’s and 500’s because of all the structural issues with them.
 

PhatSappy

Advanced
Oct 31, 2010
162
16
Eagle is hurting. There is a huge churn right now. People are leaving for American, other industries, and even other regionals. Between the industry opening up and the constant threat of divestiture everybody is scrambling off the ship. It will accomplish their goal of reducing employee cost though. With the majority of mechanics at the bottom of a 12 year pay scale Eagle should have about the lowest paid mechanic group in the industry for a very long time.


Without being Arpey's grab-bag, Eagle could change all that. Pay UP and mechanics will line up.
 
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