The shortage is coming and not from bob

skinvalve

Senior
Aug 26, 2007
254
54
Correction, mech's do bid Lead mech positions but you won't need much seniority to get it. Just posting to let mech's know there are job's available, good luck.
 

aafsc

Veteran
Oct 29, 2004
1,630
22
There is certainly a flaw in the "strength in numbers" philosophy.
Strength in numbers worked extremely well at EAL; but apparently the go it alone strategy (strength in skill not numbers) didn't do so well at NW.
 

aafsc

Veteran
Oct 29, 2004
1,630
22
How do you explain the wages at DL, UA, USair....all members of the " Let's go bankrupt, screw the employees and get rid of overhaul" club?

They shed their overhaul, went bankrupt....How do you explain THEIR wages...no where near those at SWA, UPS and FEDEX?

Must be the management teams!
Exactly! As a result of those companies going Ch.11, the mechanics at DL, UA, and US, unlike their AA counterparts, have all the negative aspects of Southwest's contract (heavy overhaul to El Salvador and other places, no defined pension plan, no retiree medical) so if anything they're the ones that should be screaming the loudest about wage parity.
 

aafsc

Veteran
Oct 29, 2004
1,630
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The best way to answer your question is to ask all of these AA AMTs who post here is; would they trade places with their counterparts at UA, US, or DL?
 

787nightmare

Veteran
Aug 28, 2010
722
153
The best way to answer your question is to ask all of these AA AMTs who post here is; would they trade places with their counterparts at UA, US, or DL?

I'm "soon to be" AA TULE. :p (dvldog, Bob, strike) ;)

Trade places with UA, US, DL??....No.
WN, UP??........absolutely! FX?(maybe...depends what station & who I'd work for/and with).

Some of you guys seem to keep forgetting(aafsc), WN does do some heavys(granted no component OH) in DAL(several lines), as well as phase hvy cards in PHX, HOU and DAL on RONs.
 

aafsc

Veteran
Oct 29, 2004
1,630
22
Why do you want to come to AA? Isn't it the worst airline to work for? Why don't you go to WN, Fed Ex, or UPS? By the way, UP is Bahamas air, UPS is 5X. WN may well do some checks in DAL, HOU, etc. but between them and Airtan I think they have only around 2500 AMTs and WN still sends a lot of planes to El Salvador for heavy overhaul in addition to domestic shops.
 

lineguy43

Veteran
Jun 21, 2007
616
403
Strength in numbers worked extremely well at EAL; but apparently the go it alone strategy (strength in skill not numbers) didn't do so well at NW.

So you think the demise of an entire airline is a success? EAL everyone went out and we saw how that worked out..At NW the company went balls out to bust the union with the help of the IAM. AMFA would have won that battle if the deck was not stacked against them. That strength in numbers is a sham. All of the industrial unions now IAM. IBT etc.. are in bed with their respective companies.
 

Hackman

Veteran
Sep 30, 2003
3,998
898
So you think the demise of an entire airline is a success? EAL everyone went out and we saw how that worked out..At NW the company went balls out to bust the union with the help of the IAM. AMFA would have won that battle if the deck was not stacked against them. That strength in numbers is a sham. All of the industrial unions now IAM. IBT etc.. are in bed with their respective companies.
Don"t forget the NMB, who wouldn't release AMFA until Dougie Stealin' had all his scabs hired (how many millions did it cost?) and trained in AZ, and also the NW iam scabs ready to take over any duties previously done the NW AMT's as payback for dumping them. Dougie Stealin' had a hard enough time keeping the aircraft in the air after he essentially locked out AMFA, as we all witnessed with the FAA inspectors breathing down their neck and all the violations NW incurred, until they were called off by the FAA suits stemming from the complaints by NW corporate minions. It was all planned years in advance, hard to win that one playing by the RLA rules, as they hoped. The best contract to date won by AMFA at NW could not be allowed to stand, how dare they fight NW management to a PEB. When the time came, at least your union fought when backed into a corner, which is more than can be said today for the Company Industrial Unions like the twu, iam, and the ibt.

AAfsc is a ramper, and just has to bash AMFA at every turn, being they were "elitist" and not a real union like the others.... :lol: Not a real surprise there.

It's all been gone over before, what choice was there other than to walk. I was proud to walk the picket line with you guys, it was my honor.

My NW friends are all doing better today than they were, but it was a rough road for many.
 

787nightmare

Veteran
Aug 28, 2010
722
153
Why do you want to come to AA? Isn't it the worst airline to work for? Why don't you go to WN, Fed Ex, or UPS? By the way, UP is Bahamas air, UPS is 5X. WN may well do some checks in DAL, HOU, etc. but between them and Airtan I think they have only around 2500 AMTs and WN still sends a lot of planes to El Salvador for heavy overhaul in addition to domestic shops.


Because it's work that's better than at the lazy B where I'm at now. As strange as it may sound, I deeply miss airline maint work. The Boeing 787 prog is the worst comml aviation job I've ever had. (not talking about compensation) You act as though someone can just stroll right on in any one of carriers. :lol:
I've been recently contacted to "test" with WN, but like a lot of people, I haven't had too much success with WN in the past. It's an extremely hard carrier to get in.
I'll probably have to pass because I won't be able to get any time off to make that appt.

I've worked for FedEx, and should still be there. Others here on this forum have read the circumstances surrounding my disaster at FX.
OK....UPS may be referred to as 5X in industry identification, but the N numbers on there aircraft are generally NxxxUP...(and are also referred to as UP in articles I've read).

And no, I don't see AA as the worst airline to work for, or I would've just stayed where I'm at. I've been commuting for over 3 yrs to TUL. Anymore questions why I'd take the AA TULE position?
One other thing....WN does not send a lot of aircraft to El Salvador for maintenance. A limited number of planes are routed down there for a "trial basis"(if you will) maintenance. They're still evaluating that option-and are limited . It's not like it's a major meca for maintenance.
I know someone in Mgt at WN, he made a trip down there a couple wks ago...
 

aafsc

Veteran
Oct 29, 2004
1,630
22
So you think the demise of an entire airline is a success? EAL everyone went out and we saw how that worked out..At NW the company went balls out to bust the union with the help of the IAM. AMFA would have won that battle if the deck was not stacked against them. That strength in numbers is a sham. All of the industrial unions now IAM. IBT etc.. are in bed with their respective companies.
Yes, EAL's demise was a huge success in our (former EAL employees) view and here is why: First, there were many similarities but also some important differences between the IAM/EAL and AMFA/NW events. Just as NW went "balls out to bust the union", EAL did the same thing. Just as Bush junior and the FAA helped NW, Bush senior and the FAA helped Lorenzo; this was later proven when EAL's JFK maintenance certificate was revoked and individuals charged for major offenses, thus substantiating the IAM's claims. The differences were that we knew that as soon as Lorenzo got a hold of EAL and from his track record at CO; he wanted the unions off the property forever. Shortly after his arrival, his installed his managers who were incompetent, hated the workers, and whose ONLY goal was not to run the operation but to make the employees' 8 hours on the job extremely miserable. This, in addition to CO's and Texas Air's "appropriation" of EAL aircraft and computer system, made it crystal clear that a strike was inevitable. At NW, the mechanics apparently thought it was business as usual and that they they were going to get another contract when in fact NW was going to ( proportedly said by a NW executive) "put them in their place" in retaliation for the rich contract. NW quickly began preparations for a strike that they in fact wanted (like Lorenzo at EAL) while AMFA thought that NW respected them and said NW senior management was" a breath of fresh air". Another difference is that all the other unions supported the IAM at EAL while NONE (not just the IAM) supported AMFA. And the biggest difference is that the IAM strike buried EAL and Lorenzo (who was banned from the industry) FOREVER, which to an EAL employee is SUCCESS compared to NW which defeated AMFA and flew for a few more years before merging with DL.
 

aafsc

Veteran
Oct 29, 2004
1,630
22
Because it's work that's better than at the lazy B where I'm at now. As strange as it may sound, I deeply miss airline maint work. The Boeing 787 prog is the worst comml aviation job I've ever had. (not talking about compensation) You act as though someone can just stroll right on in any one of carriers. :lol:
I've been recently contacted to "test" with WN, but like a lot of people, I haven't had too much success with WN in the past. It's an extremely hard carrier to get in.
I'll probably have to pass because I won't be able to get any time off to make that appt.

I've worked for FedEx, and should still be there. Others here on this forum have read the circumstances surrounding my disaster at FX.
OK....UPS may be referred to as 5X in industry identification, but the N numbers on there aircraft are generally NxxxUP...(and are also referred to as UP in articles I've read).

And no, I don't see AA as the worst airline to work for, or I would've just stayed where I'm at. I've been commuting for over 3 yrs to TUL. Anymore questions why I'd take the AA TULE position?
One other thing....WN does not send a lot of aircraft to El Salvador for maintenance. A limited number of planes are routed down there for a "trial basis"(if you will) maintenance. They're still evaluating that option-and are limited . It's not like it's a major meca for maintenance.
I know someone in Mgt at WN, he made a trip down there a couple wks ago...
Two years and four lines seems an awful lot for a "trial basis". It is enough to cover their older model 737s (300s and 500s).
 

737823

Veteran
Jun 5, 2010
6,631
3,316
Don"t forget the NMB, who wouldn't release AMFA until Dougie Stealin' had all his scabs hired (how many millions did it cost?) and trained in AZ, and also the NW iam scabs ready to take over any duties previously done the NW AMT's as payback for dumping them.

<snip>

My NW friends are all doing better today than they were, but it was a rough road for many.

Solidarity right?

Josh
 

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
14,274
6,112
Exactly! As a result of those companies going Ch.11, the mechanics at DL, UA, and US, unlike their AA counterparts, have all the negative aspects of Southwest's contract (heavy overhaul to El Salvador and other places, no defined pension plan, no retiree medical) so if anything they're the ones that should be screaming the loudest about wage parity.

In reality if you lose the work does it matter who you lose it to? Why is it that you bring up SWA all the time but stay silent about how for years prior to the SWA deal under the IAM work was sent to China and El Salvador (UAL ans USAIR)? If AA decided to send out a heavy check because we werent getting them done what would stop AA from sending it to El Salvador? Show me the language.

DL gets more than us, they are Non-union, UA and US are both in Mediation, you dont negoatiate compensation based on open contracts.

We are in a good position to make significant gains. From what I hear most carriers are working the crap out of their mechanics, giving OT instead of a fair hourly wage and most mechanics are pretty much resigned to that at the moment. The FAA has some concerns about it but both the industry and the Unions have obstruced any moves they try to make to lower the amount of hours mechanics can make available to the airlines. Right now there is no real limit, just that they have 4 24 hour periods per month, otherwise they can work 24/7.

Two years and four lines seems an awful lot for a "trial basis". It is enough to cover their older model 737s (300s and 500s).

Well when I asked Arpey if inhouse cost more than outsourcing back in 2009 he said "The jury was still out on that". That was 5 years into "the trial".

Yes, EAL's demise was a huge success in our (former EAL employees) view and here is why: First, there were many similarities but also some important differences between the IAM/EAL and AMFA/NW events.

I agree, the EAL strike was a success. The EAL strike set the airlines back and wages stabilized for a few years, we all earned more because of what they did. What was wrong was that the unions had built a system that punishes workers at places like EAL for doing what they did yet rewards workers for giving concessions, thereby putting downward pressure on wages across the industry if they cave into concession after concession until the carrier gets bought out by another.

Would I trade places with guys I know at USAIR, UAL or Delta, No, but I would with many of my classmates who ended up in the Elevator Union, Con Ed, MTA, LIPA, LIRR, SWA, Fed Ex and UPS. Its 25 years too late but I would definately steer any young kids away from making the same mistake.
 

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