Pilot Engineers

[Over-Talk]

Donny, there is definitely still a use for P/Es in the modern world. Companies that work on exploration jobs in the far North still employ them. Try searching for those companies.
These jobs suit a P/E because they don't fly alot per day, and may be out in the wilderness for a long time.
Unfortunately, these exploration jobs are not as common as they used to be. Many jobs now "blitz" an area very hard in a short period, and may use two pilots double-shifted, plus an engineer.
Also, changes to Air Regs have limited how long a pilot can be out in the bush on these old-style camps. Also many modern Maintenance Programs require an Independent Check from another person after certain inspections and repairs.

If you can find work as a pilot, take it; if that is what you want.
An AME licence is a great thing to have in your back pocket if you are close to getting it. It will help you get a start on the flying side, even if you don't use it much after that. The knowledge and respect you will gain from finishing your AME licence (even if not kept current) will always be useful as a pilot.

 

[Elvis]

Over-Talk,Who is going sign out a dual inspection if You put a P/E on a job in the "far north" ??

 

[frenchwrench]

A: the minister may make exemptions...
B: Your MCM can include that you train anyone to do the icc, train sign a training sheet and off you go.
C: you can get your inspection sheets made to suit your operation.
I remember NMH had the retorque on the short ranger /long ranger eliminated by flapping the baldes, retorque, and flap them again, and off you go.

 

[Over-Talk]

Hi Elvis, I hope Frenchwrench's explanation helped clarify ways that P/Es can still work on various jobs.
Here is a quote from my original post about why there are fewer P/E jobs now than in earlier times........."many modern Maintenance Programs require an Independent Check from another person after certain inspections and repairs."
I should emphasise the part about "certain inspections", because most regular scheduled inspections DO NOT require a dual inspection, so there is still a place for a P/E, depending on the amount of flying to be done, and the type of maintenance inspections that are coming due.
My point was that due to modern regulations, there are less opportunities for P/Es than in the past, but jobs are still available.

 

[MagSeal]

I beg to differ on regular scheduled inspections don't require independant checks. How do you grease a swashplate by the book without removing pitch links? You can swing the blades round and round, but then how do you feel the bearing for looseness or bearing damage? You need to isolate the swashplate completely from all connections sources to properly do this. Once you've disconnected a flight control, Voila! Independent check time.

 

[Over-Talk]

Magseal, wouldn't you agree there are SOME regular inspections, on SOME types, listed in SOME company maintenance manuals that can still be performed legally without an independent check?

Thanks for your comments (as always), in fact they reinforce my original point to Donnybrook.......that is.......because of modern regulations (concerning independent checks) there is LESS work now that suits P/Es, but it still does exist.

 

[cap]

The P/E 'role' goes deeper than mentioned. There are still companies out there that need a pilot for the summer months and ALSO need a good engineer for the winter months for the hangar. Certain CP's and DOM's still have a 'hang-up' concerning P/E's doing both jobs, even though they are separated by seasons. To those that don't think like that, having a P/E on staff 'kills two birds with one stone'.

Last, but definitely not least, is the fact that if one day the 'aviating license' is lost to a medical, there is something to fall back on that keeps a person in the business. This 'loss of license' is not restricted to those with greying hair either. No longer is that the exclusive domain of the 40+ crowd. Anyone here can walk into their next medical a pilot and walk out 1 hour later wondering just what in the hell he does now.

 

[MagSeal]

to be honest Over Talk, yes there could be some out there, but none that I personally know of.

I feel scared though, to wonder if somebody out there may have an approval to do less maintenance than the manufacturer recommends.

And in todays day and age, there seems to be more daily AD's requiring daily sign outs adding to the dilemma.

 

[Over-Talk]

Magseal, thanks for your input, once again it has helped reinforce my point that there is still an occasional job for P/Es.
Many of the recent daily ADs that you refer to require a licenced AME's signout, and no independent check. The perfect solution on a quiet job is a P/E.

 

[downwash]

Donnybrook, I'm in too much of a hurry to read all the posts, so apologize if I repeat other responses. My perspective about the P/E question is that it depends primarily on the individual whether they can be effective in both roles. I've known some dandies and some duds, including a few pilots who took on the added role.

As usual, Cap makes good points, especially about the 'hidden' advantages of the dual role, especially given the flight duty time restrictions on pilots already in place, and the line duty time AMEs to be instituted ere long (or so I hear) - they should largely rule out the older version of P/E indenture. I don't think you'll find many scrupulous operators employing a P/E flying full time and doing his own wrenching any more, anyway, and let's all give thanks for that.

My own recommendation would be that you get your AME licence first. If you're any good, you'll always have a job. Then, if you still have to, take on flying, and with a far better knowledge base of your equipment and its operation than the majority of pilots. Whatever you choose, the best of luck! B)

 

[Elvis]

In addition to my last post my main concern is that of an operator to send a P/E (without support) on a long tern contract.

:wacko: :wacko: :wacko:

 

[donnybrook]

So the common view of P/Es is probably not as shiny as it was 10 years ago(?). If the goal is to fly anyway, could a guy with a little bit of maintenace experience get his foot in the door and pull a few wrenches until he has enough hours to fly full time, without the spectre of a company using him solely for the maintenance licence? I've heard quite a few stories of P/Es getting hired and then spending the whole season glued to their toolbox. This happened to me earlier on as an apprentice, but to be fair I was hired as a mechanic first with the promise of a few hours on the duals as a "carrot".

 

[downwash]

Donny' - I suspect that 'little bit of maintenance experience' wouldn't be likely to get you early prospects for any flying in very many shops, which I trust you can understand. I'd suggest your focus should be on the maintenance until you've got a bit of a track record there, then find a place where you could pursue both as you choose. Or, if you prove to be a bust wrenching, you're probably a 'natural' pilot. 🙄

 

[donnybrook]

Maintenance diploma + 4 yrs apprentice on mostly 206 series helicopters. I've got a few hundred hours heli and 120 fixed. I would eventually like to fly full time and leave the mech stuff to those with a genuine desire. Thoughts? ie. Keep at the AME stuff or go for broke, hopefully not literally, as a pilot? I guess this is also a "state of the industry" question for those in the trenches, wrt the requirements companies need for insurance, etc.

 

[Rosco]

donnybrook,

I beleive you have a good head start on the rest of the guys/gals wanting to fly. I am also a firm beleiver in Knowledge and Experience is never anything lost, it's always something gained. You're experience will/is making you more marketable than the average guy/gal out their with a 100hr lic. What you have will make you more marketable and if you stay with it, stay positive and maintain the RIGHT ATTITUDE no matter what, you'll get to somewhere you want to be.

Take it from a guy who didnt and really regrets it.

Cheers

R B)