A good friend of mine who also is a p/e....as I am , summed it up perfectly...become a p/e and be the most hated person in aviation....both sides hate you for knowing too much .and can't be bullshitted by either side....take my advice and do one or the other....a lot less agravating . 😉 <_< :wacko:
Pilot Engineers
- Thread starter donnybrook
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DGP: Pilot/Engineers were not formed by the colleges.
I have no idea why the analogy goes P/E when actually it should be E/P, which I was.
Most engineers became pilots back when 3-4 months in the bush was common and then park the machine till next season. The engineer found the time very boring sitting around the camp all day long, so eventually quite a few got pilots licence.
The thinking back in those days were as follows; send an a/c out with an experienced bush engineer and low time pilot or high time pilot and low time engineer. The idea was one would learn from the other.
An engineer has at least three years on aircraft before he gets a license, add two or three tours in the bush and he is experienced. To get a pilots license is a matter of putting in the required hours on something he knows inside out.
A pilot trying to become an engineer is another matter. Most pilots do not have the patience to do so and or the interest. Most pilots do not have enough of a maintenance background to make good engineers and I know off very few that have gone that route.
One draw back to being an E/P is that you will be restricted to a/c that you can handle doing both, including flight hours (avg. 80 hr.)
:unsure:
B)
I have no idea why the analogy goes P/E when actually it should be E/P, which I was.
Most engineers became pilots back when 3-4 months in the bush was common and then park the machine till next season. The engineer found the time very boring sitting around the camp all day long, so eventually quite a few got pilots licence.
The thinking back in those days were as follows; send an a/c out with an experienced bush engineer and low time pilot or high time pilot and low time engineer. The idea was one would learn from the other.
An engineer has at least three years on aircraft before he gets a license, add two or three tours in the bush and he is experienced. To get a pilots license is a matter of putting in the required hours on something he knows inside out.
A pilot trying to become an engineer is another matter. Most pilots do not have the patience to do so and or the interest. Most pilots do not have enough of a maintenance background to make good engineers and I know off very few that have gone that route.
One draw back to being an E/P is that you will be restricted to a/c that you can handle doing both, including flight hours (avg. 80 hr.)
:unsure:
B)frenchwrench
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Anything to get a pilot prepared to take a machine to BF nowwhere should be the most valueable asset a company should desire.We have all seen guys with no idea how to change a grease gun, even put a fuel barrel into use..I try and go over stuff all the time with drivers. What to do etc,
we were reviewing some allison stuff a month ago, and I read about water/alcohol, and about using arizona road dust,and dumping it into the engine at full bore...
where you get the stuff at,beats me...
If the guys you work with, aren't into dual rated guys, you nhave to be prepared to move on.. It seems to be the only thing they understand...
we were reviewing some allison stuff a month ago, and I read about water/alcohol, and about using arizona road dust,and dumping it into the engine at full bore...
where you get the stuff at,beats me...
If the guys you work with, aren't into dual rated guys, you nhave to be prepared to move on.. It seems to be the only thing they understand...
donnybrook
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Being a P/E is definitely not as rosy sounding as it was when I started! When I started the thread I was thinking that people would be clambering over themselves to recommend doing both. Thanks everyone!
VERTICAL REF
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I am a pilot who went back and became an engineer, and have been doing both for a long time.
You will never have a problem with other pilots and you would be suprised at how many he/she's there are out there. The only "professionals' you will have trouble with are the lazy, hungover, uneducated, "smarter" than they think they are, so called engineers that you will work with.
The dedicated, hardworking, real professional engineer that you work with uses the he/she as another tool in his box. Save's him a lot of trouble shooting and explaining and teaching and cuddling and etc...a good pilot always appreciates a good engineer and a pilot engineer knows exactly what a hard working engineer is up against!
There are many well educated pilots who know just as much if not more than some of the licensed engineers...the only thing there short of is the M1/M2 piece of paper!
I have never been without work since starting in the 80's, I credit that to having knowledge from both sides. Knowing the other makes you better at the first! 😉
You will never have a problem with other pilots and you would be suprised at how many he/she's there are out there. The only "professionals' you will have trouble with are the lazy, hungover, uneducated, "smarter" than they think they are, so called engineers that you will work with.
The dedicated, hardworking, real professional engineer that you work with uses the he/she as another tool in his box. Save's him a lot of trouble shooting and explaining and teaching and cuddling and etc...a good pilot always appreciates a good engineer and a pilot engineer knows exactly what a hard working engineer is up against!
There are many well educated pilots who know just as much if not more than some of the licensed engineers...the only thing there short of is the M1/M2 piece of paper!
I have never been without work since starting in the 80's, I credit that to having knowledge from both sides. Knowing the other makes you better at the first! 😉
Vert. Ref.: Your post was very well stated and an original statement back in the dark ages was an engineer is at least three years in the making, whereas anybody with the money can become a pilot in less than a year. Not to belittle any body in particular but I've met quite a few pilots that needed a good boot. Pilots seem to spend thier time trying to BS one another on how good they are. MACHO BS. Congratulations on getting your AME license, as you can appreciate not to many pilots go that route. Best of luck.
Big Duke 6
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It's a team effort, you guys need to look at it from outside the box. Think of it as a crew rather than pilot vs engineer. without each other you will both be in the soup line. In my humble opion, most conflicts or friction are due to personality disagreements which may allow the other to persieve that he/she is not performing there duties. BlackMac I've worked with both pilots and engineers that both need a boot in the ass, your reference to the amount of time it takes to earn a license is questionable . The industry pretty much self regulates when and where a pilot or engineer is going to work. An engineer will be legally qualified to sign an a/c out after three years. However it will take a pilot an equal amount of time hopefully gaining some experience on the hangar floor logging time on a mop or learning how a remote pump works, etc.. before an operator will allow him to use his/her license and it will be many years before they are qualified to perform longline tasks or other speciality operations. I have a huge respect for the engineering disipline and I'am priviliged to be working with some of the best in the industry. Pilots are infamous about telling stories, especially about themselves. However you either can do the job or you can't. Logs, Drills, Air condtioning units, and Skiers to name a few, don't get from A to B without somebody that has spent a lot of time learning how to do so, has put them there. I think Vert-Ref has some better insight, having done both jobs. When it comes to Engineer/pilots personally I think you should do one or the other on the job. In todays age of increaced legislation and workloads put on both professions especially on a high flying job or a maintance pig a/c, there is alot to be missed, besides spread the wealth. There are lots of people looking for work in both fields. There are always two sides to a coin, my philosophy is conduct yourself as a professional and you will be treated like one. 
Duke 6 and Vert Ref make some good points (in the Official Western Language, too).
Yes, there are some pilots that need a boot. Having a "hungover/lazy" attitude is not a trait that's exclusive to engineers it seems. These are probably the disrespectful characters that DGP and his friend have run into.
This is touching on the subject of whose job it is to wash the helicopter that was raised in another topic. There is no specific answer. It depends on workload, communication, give-and-take, and consideration for the guy you are in the bush with. (By the way, cleaning empty pop cans, chocolate bar wrappers and half-eaten sandwiches from the cockpit is NEVER an engineers job! That is a job for the pilot to do DAILY).
I fly for a highly-respected company that has several P/Es on the payroll. (I'm not one of them). Some of them keep their AME licence current, while others haven't picked up a wrench in years. However, they are all respected for the extra skills and experience they bring to the team.
Yes, there are some pilots that need a boot. Having a "hungover/lazy" attitude is not a trait that's exclusive to engineers it seems. These are probably the disrespectful characters that DGP and his friend have run into.
This is touching on the subject of whose job it is to wash the helicopter that was raised in another topic. There is no specific answer. It depends on workload, communication, give-and-take, and consideration for the guy you are in the bush with. (By the way, cleaning empty pop cans, chocolate bar wrappers and half-eaten sandwiches from the cockpit is NEVER an engineers job! That is a job for the pilot to do DAILY).
I fly for a highly-respected company that has several P/Es on the payroll. (I'm not one of them). Some of them keep their AME licence current, while others haven't picked up a wrench in years. However, they are all respected for the extra skills and experience they bring to the team.
cyclic monkey
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Vert Ref, nice to see you back again.
However, please don't use the abbreviation 'he/she' to describe pilot-engineers.
There are several characters in our industry that suit that description more accurately, and that's a completely different topic !!!!!!!!!
Hopefully no-one writes in for our opinion on getting that "type-conversion".
However, please don't use the abbreviation 'he/she' to describe pilot-engineers.
There are several characters in our industry that suit that description more accurately, and that's a completely different topic !!!!!!!!!
Hopefully no-one writes in for our opinion on getting that "type-conversion".
VERTICAL REF
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yea we will leave the boys and girl from venture outa this one... 😛
just could not pass it up!
just could not pass it up!
