delldude
Veteran
it is my understanding that pbgc will terminate the plan and not seigel....no chance for 1113 abrogation.is this accurate?
- Thread Starter
- #32
[blockquote]
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On 1/26/2003 5:01:50 PM cavalier wrote:
So no one is bullchipping anyone here. There will be no job action.
- Get real and start 'earning' your place here.
- Live to fight another day.
- If you don't like it quit. Remember 'you' have so much employment potential.
- You are not voting anyhow.
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pitguy, did you miss the zero tolerance meetings?
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[/blockquote]
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cavalier,
I have not been in favor of job actions till recent events. Dave has placed the final straw into the basket that broke the camels back. The lack of honesty and a direct and calculated series of statements at the hearing has placed us in a grave situation. If you read the memo from the MEC's 24th codephone. You will see the numbers and summation of the letter of confidentiality. Dave broke this binding letter. He not only broke the letter but then proceeded to place the finial nails in the coffin with the caculated statements. This was not an accident or a error on his behalf, but a positioning move to place ALPA in a hindered position. He knew that time was not on the side of ALPA and probably felt that could drive the union to accept/renegotiate or take it to the courts. It could also be an attempt to extract more from the other pensions due to distress to the total of around 3.1 Billion.
As it has been explained to me the pension funds move to the front of the list. They are prior to the creditors and this is a better solution for the older aged pilot force. The pension is the main focus of this senior group. Most pilots will be hard pressed to make up for the losses associated with termination of the current plan. With so few years before manditory retirement at age 60 it has become a non negeotiable issue. That is why the pilot force is commited and the ALPA MEC came back with the unanamous vote of 12 to 0.
I feel this is one issue that Dave & Dave bet the wrong way. It has been the fire to ignite the dormant storage tanks in the pilot force. It is somewhat like the struggles of the infant ALPA union many years ago.
GOD, help us overcome these trying times.
----------------
On 1/26/2003 5:01:50 PM cavalier wrote:
So no one is bullchipping anyone here. There will be no job action.
- Get real and start 'earning' your place here.
- Live to fight another day.
- If you don't like it quit. Remember 'you' have so much employment potential.
- You are not voting anyhow.
----------------
[/blockquote]
------------------------------------------------------------------
pitguy, did you miss the zero tolerance meetings?
----------------
[/blockquote]
******************************************************
cavalier,
I have not been in favor of job actions till recent events. Dave has placed the final straw into the basket that broke the camels back. The lack of honesty and a direct and calculated series of statements at the hearing has placed us in a grave situation. If you read the memo from the MEC's 24th codephone. You will see the numbers and summation of the letter of confidentiality. Dave broke this binding letter. He not only broke the letter but then proceeded to place the finial nails in the coffin with the caculated statements. This was not an accident or a error on his behalf, but a positioning move to place ALPA in a hindered position. He knew that time was not on the side of ALPA and probably felt that could drive the union to accept/renegotiate or take it to the courts. It could also be an attempt to extract more from the other pensions due to distress to the total of around 3.1 Billion.
As it has been explained to me the pension funds move to the front of the list. They are prior to the creditors and this is a better solution for the older aged pilot force. The pension is the main focus of this senior group. Most pilots will be hard pressed to make up for the losses associated with termination of the current plan. With so few years before manditory retirement at age 60 it has become a non negeotiable issue. That is why the pilot force is commited and the ALPA MEC came back with the unanamous vote of 12 to 0.
I feel this is one issue that Dave & Dave bet the wrong way. It has been the fire to ignite the dormant storage tanks in the pilot force. It is somewhat like the struggles of the infant ALPA union many years ago.
GOD, help us overcome these trying times.
- Thread Starter
- #33
Cav:
Cav said: According to Chip and a few other outraged pilots the answer is to shut the doors and go home for good. ALPA can take a stand all day long but to what end, obviously the demise of U. So what does that accomplish, besides, THERE, we got them, we showed them who is in control. It just seems so incredibly senseless.
Chip comments: Cav, I just said I wasn't going to banter back and forth with posters, but I have three questions for you.
1. When did I say "the answer is to shut the doors and go home for good?"
2. How many employee groups are being asked to take a severe third concession and who are they?
3. What's your opinion of ALPA's financial analysis, put together by outside advisors, discussed on the January 24 code-a-phone?
I agree with you this all seems senseless, but all 12 MEC members and virtually every pilot is in agreement on this issue. Considering the history of labor relations on this property, that should tell you something when the pilots are in total agreement when the viability of the business enterprise is now at stake.
Chip
Cav said: According to Chip and a few other outraged pilots the answer is to shut the doors and go home for good. ALPA can take a stand all day long but to what end, obviously the demise of U. So what does that accomplish, besides, THERE, we got them, we showed them who is in control. It just seems so incredibly senseless.
Chip comments: Cav, I just said I wasn't going to banter back and forth with posters, but I have three questions for you.
1. When did I say "the answer is to shut the doors and go home for good?"
2. How many employee groups are being asked to take a severe third concession and who are they?
3. What's your opinion of ALPA's financial analysis, put together by outside advisors, discussed on the January 24 code-a-phone?
I agree with you this all seems senseless, but all 12 MEC members and virtually every pilot is in agreement on this issue. Considering the history of labor relations on this property, that should tell you something when the pilots are in total agreement when the viability of the business enterprise is now at stake.
Chip
PITbull
Veteran
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/26/2003 2:17:06 PM gogogadget wrote:
Flyguy121,
What is funny is how the things change depending on the point of view. Right now I hear people teaming up against ALPA and the pilots to save their own job at the expense of someone else. Wether it is the pilots protecting their pension at the expenses of the 26000 employees or the 26000 other employees trying to sacrafice the 4000pilots so they can keep working. All I know is that at this point you should all be working together to get out of this. Shared Equal Sacrafice should be the mantra and not Feed the young to the gators to keep the ship from sinking.
Since I am not a U employee, I can take this attitude that many U employees are taking and twist it. By U entering in BK and selling themselves out to the lowest bidder and taking drastic pay cuts and changing pension plans and lowering prices, U and UAL are LOWERING the bar and other employees at other carriers want to know why doesn't U just "Sacrafice" themselves for the good of the industry so that we, The strong, can reduce capacity increase prices and keep our jobs! At least you will be able to be rehired somewhere else!
Now, I dont mean this literally, but see how you sound when you dont work together. Same picture, different brush!
Do you see how this looks? TCOEO------Take Care of Each Other!
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[/blockquote]
Gogogadget,
From an outsideperspective, you are exactly "right on the money"!
![16.gif']](/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2F%5Bimg+src%3D%27http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usaviation.com%2Fidealbb%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2F16.gif%27%5D+%5Bimg+src%3D%27http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usaviation.com%2Fidealbb%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2F16.gif%27%5D&hash=77f38ac67e381c88d1f765c3a03f8d68)
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On 1/26/2003 2:17:06 PM gogogadget wrote:
Flyguy121,
What is funny is how the things change depending on the point of view. Right now I hear people teaming up against ALPA and the pilots to save their own job at the expense of someone else. Wether it is the pilots protecting their pension at the expenses of the 26000 employees or the 26000 other employees trying to sacrafice the 4000pilots so they can keep working. All I know is that at this point you should all be working together to get out of this. Shared Equal Sacrafice should be the mantra and not Feed the young to the gators to keep the ship from sinking.
Since I am not a U employee, I can take this attitude that many U employees are taking and twist it. By U entering in BK and selling themselves out to the lowest bidder and taking drastic pay cuts and changing pension plans and lowering prices, U and UAL are LOWERING the bar and other employees at other carriers want to know why doesn't U just "Sacrafice" themselves for the good of the industry so that we, The strong, can reduce capacity increase prices and keep our jobs! At least you will be able to be rehired somewhere else!
Now, I dont mean this literally, but see how you sound when you dont work together. Same picture, different brush!
Do you see how this looks? TCOEO------Take Care of Each Other!
----------------
[/blockquote]
Gogogadget,
From an outsideperspective, you are exactly "right on the money"!
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/26/2003 3
18 PM RowUnderDCA wrote:
Technical question:
?Is it accurate to say that ALPA MEC negotiated FAE down to 50% and now the company is offering a combination of PBGC pension and new funding to equal 40% if FAE?
Again this is a question, not an assertion, everyone.
good luck to all.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Row -
I think the 40% FAE offer is just conjecture on Chip's part. But, for the sake of argument, let's say that is exactly what Dave proposes. There are three problems with that:
1.) If we agree to it, in writing, we have lost the grip on the only hammer we might possibly have to get management's attention. We've effectively, approved the termination of the pension plan.
2.) What then would stop Dave from coming back in a few months and saying, "Sorry, guys, we can't afford that "make-up" money. We'll have to think of something else."
3.) This one is very likely in light of the PGBC history. The PGBC will likely veto any follow-on pension plan that would pay in excess of the PBGC meager guarantee. They've done exactly that before.
I don't see how a 40% FAE offer would be viable unless the PBGC signed off on it in advance AND there were some ironclad guarantees that the make-up payments would actually be made. I doubt both of those stipulations will be forthcoming.
----------------
On 1/26/2003 3
18 PM RowUnderDCA wrote: Technical question:
?Is it accurate to say that ALPA MEC negotiated FAE down to 50% and now the company is offering a combination of PBGC pension and new funding to equal 40% if FAE?
Again this is a question, not an assertion, everyone.
good luck to all.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Row -
I think the 40% FAE offer is just conjecture on Chip's part. But, for the sake of argument, let's say that is exactly what Dave proposes. There are three problems with that:
1.) If we agree to it, in writing, we have lost the grip on the only hammer we might possibly have to get management's attention. We've effectively, approved the termination of the pension plan.
2.) What then would stop Dave from coming back in a few months and saying, "Sorry, guys, we can't afford that "make-up" money. We'll have to think of something else."
3.) This one is very likely in light of the PGBC history. The PGBC will likely veto any follow-on pension plan that would pay in excess of the PBGC meager guarantee. They've done exactly that before.
I don't see how a 40% FAE offer would be viable unless the PBGC signed off on it in advance AND there were some ironclad guarantees that the make-up payments would actually be made. I doubt both of those stipulations will be forthcoming.
cavalier,
I have not been in favor of job actions till recent events. Dave has placed the final straw into the basket that broke the camels back. The lack of honesty and a direct and calculated series of statements at the hearing has placed us in a grave situation. If you read the memo from the MEC's 24th codephone. You will see the numbers and summation of the letter of confidentiality. Dave broke this binding letter. He not only broke the letter but then proceeded to place the finial nails in the coffin with the caculated statements. This was not an accident or a error on his behalf, but a positioning move to place ALPA in a hindered position. He knew that time was not on the side of ALPA and probably felt that could drive the union to accept/renegotiate or take it to the courts. It could also be an attempt to extract more from the other pensions due to distress to the total of around 3.1 Billion.
As it has been explained to me the pension funds move to the front of the list. They are prior to the creditors and this is a better solution for the older aged pilot force. The pension is the main focus of this senior group. Most pilots will be hard pressed to make up for the losses associated with termination of the current plan. With so few years before manditory retirement at age 60 it has become a non negeotiable issue. That is why the pilot force is commited and the ALPA MEC came back with the unanamous vote of 12 to 0.
I feel this is one issue that Dave & Dave bet the wrong way. It has been the fire to ignite the dormant storage tanks in the pilot force. It is somewhat like the struggles of the infant ALPA union many years ago.
GOD, help us overcome these trying times.
----------------
[/blockquote]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is NO doubt whatsoever that the pilots are really getting the double whammy and then some. But, what are the alternatives NOW, TODAY going forward? According to Chip and a few other outraged pilots the answer is to shut the doors and go home for good. ALPA can take a stand all day long but to what end, obviously the demise of U. So what does that accomplish, besides, THERE, we got them, we showed them who is in control. It just seems so incredibly senseless. We had mechanics screaming the same things when we were looking at getting hosed big time, and it's the same thing here, a hopeless fight and a senseless, vain attempt of preserving ones ego I guess. Personally I have been fed up long ago with all the crisis’s this company goes through on a weekly basis. If this is the end so be it because it's out of my control, I would just hope sanity prevails in the end after everything we all have endured!
I have not been in favor of job actions till recent events. Dave has placed the final straw into the basket that broke the camels back. The lack of honesty and a direct and calculated series of statements at the hearing has placed us in a grave situation. If you read the memo from the MEC's 24th codephone. You will see the numbers and summation of the letter of confidentiality. Dave broke this binding letter. He not only broke the letter but then proceeded to place the finial nails in the coffin with the caculated statements. This was not an accident or a error on his behalf, but a positioning move to place ALPA in a hindered position. He knew that time was not on the side of ALPA and probably felt that could drive the union to accept/renegotiate or take it to the courts. It could also be an attempt to extract more from the other pensions due to distress to the total of around 3.1 Billion.
As it has been explained to me the pension funds move to the front of the list. They are prior to the creditors and this is a better solution for the older aged pilot force. The pension is the main focus of this senior group. Most pilots will be hard pressed to make up for the losses associated with termination of the current plan. With so few years before manditory retirement at age 60 it has become a non negeotiable issue. That is why the pilot force is commited and the ALPA MEC came back with the unanamous vote of 12 to 0.
I feel this is one issue that Dave & Dave bet the wrong way. It has been the fire to ignite the dormant storage tanks in the pilot force. It is somewhat like the struggles of the infant ALPA union many years ago.
GOD, help us overcome these trying times.
----------------
[/blockquote]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is NO doubt whatsoever that the pilots are really getting the double whammy and then some. But, what are the alternatives NOW, TODAY going forward? According to Chip and a few other outraged pilots the answer is to shut the doors and go home for good. ALPA can take a stand all day long but to what end, obviously the demise of U. So what does that accomplish, besides, THERE, we got them, we showed them who is in control. It just seems so incredibly senseless. We had mechanics screaming the same things when we were looking at getting hosed big time, and it's the same thing here, a hopeless fight and a senseless, vain attempt of preserving ones ego I guess. Personally I have been fed up long ago with all the crisis’s this company goes through on a weekly basis. If this is the end so be it because it's out of my control, I would just hope sanity prevails in the end after everything we all have endured!
A320 Driver
Veteran
If a letter with Dave's name on it comes to my house in the next few days I will know that Dave is trying to bypass the MEC and the negotiating comittee. This will tell me much about his intentions.
A320 Driver
A320 Driver
- Thread Starter
- #38
I'm not going to debate back and forth what each of us believe is fair or right in regard to the pension plan(s). My intent is to provide information for those interested in US Airways.
The retirement plan restoration proposal remains a fluid situation and I believe there are a few other pertinent points.
1. ALPA does not definitely know what the company's next move will be. For example, instead of filing the S.1113 motion the company's bankruptcy attorneys could ask the court to set aside the pilot's pension plan, versus canceling all of the agreement(s).
2. Roy Freundlich's pointed January 24 code-a-phone statement is accurate and should be viewed by every employee.
3. The ALPA MEC has not charged the Negotiating Committee to enter into pension plan changes with the company; however, high level discussions between the parties have occurred. For example, the January 24 ALPA code-a-phone said, "MEC Chairman Bill Pollock held an internal ALPA coordination meeting yesterday and today at the ALPA offices in Herndon to address the current threat to pilot pension benefits and coordinate MEC committee activity. Attending the meeting were members of the Retirement and Insurance Committee, Negotiating Committee, Communications Committee and ALPA financial and legal advisors. The officers, committee members and advisors at this meeting also received a confidential presentation from President and CEO David Siegel, and other management officials and corporate advisors, on management’s views on addressing pilot pension benefits."
4. Throughout this restructuring process I believe the ALPA MEC and myself have been pragmatic and rational. Nobody (except the competition) wants to see US Airways liquidated, but the pilot resolve to obtain an equitable resolution to the underfunded pension problem should not be underestimated.
A320 is correct, pilot unity is very, very strong.
Chip
P.S. Through the first half, Tampa Bay looks tough and Oakland sluggish. Meanwhile, Go Bucks and Browns!
The retirement plan restoration proposal remains a fluid situation and I believe there are a few other pertinent points.
1. ALPA does not definitely know what the company's next move will be. For example, instead of filing the S.1113 motion the company's bankruptcy attorneys could ask the court to set aside the pilot's pension plan, versus canceling all of the agreement(s).
2. Roy Freundlich's pointed January 24 code-a-phone statement is accurate and should be viewed by every employee.
3. The ALPA MEC has not charged the Negotiating Committee to enter into pension plan changes with the company; however, high level discussions between the parties have occurred. For example, the January 24 ALPA code-a-phone said, "MEC Chairman Bill Pollock held an internal ALPA coordination meeting yesterday and today at the ALPA offices in Herndon to address the current threat to pilot pension benefits and coordinate MEC committee activity. Attending the meeting were members of the Retirement and Insurance Committee, Negotiating Committee, Communications Committee and ALPA financial and legal advisors. The officers, committee members and advisors at this meeting also received a confidential presentation from President and CEO David Siegel, and other management officials and corporate advisors, on management’s views on addressing pilot pension benefits."
4. Throughout this restructuring process I believe the ALPA MEC and myself have been pragmatic and rational. Nobody (except the competition) wants to see US Airways liquidated, but the pilot resolve to obtain an equitable resolution to the underfunded pension problem should not be underestimated.
A320 is correct, pilot unity is very, very strong.
Chip
P.S. Through the first half, Tampa Bay looks tough and Oakland sluggish. Meanwhile, Go Bucks and Browns!
- Thread Starter
- #39
Watching the Bucs tear apart the Raiders... reminds me of the last round of concessions. Ouch
[blockquote]
----------------
On 1/26/2003 7:48:06 PM chipmunn wrote:
Cav:
Cav said: According to Chip and a few other outraged pilots the answer is to shut the doors and go home for good. ALPA can take a stand all day long but to what end, obviously the demise of U. So what does that accomplish, besides, THERE, we got them, we showed them who is in control. It just seems so incredibly senseless.
Chip comments: Cav, I just said I wasn't going to banter back and forth with posters, but I have three questions for you.
1. When did I say "the answer is to shut the doors and go home for good?"
2. How many employee groups are being asked to take a severe third concession and who are they?
3. What's your opinion of ALPA's financial analysis, put together by outside advisors, discussed on the January 24 code-a-phone?
I agree with you this all seems senseless, but all 12 MEC members and virtually every pilot is in agreement on this issue. Considering the history of labor relations on this property, that should tell you something when the pilots are in total agreement when the viability of the business enterprise is now at stake.
Chip
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[/blockquote]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok Chip on number one; you never said that verbatim, that is correct, but the posts you wrote sure implied as much.
On number two; you already know that answer as well as we all do, it was never a level playing field from the beginning as Dave stated from the very start.
On number three; I have no idea because that was written with shall I say, a bit of bias pointed in the pilots direction. Read the company side read the pilots side, who is correct? I posted before that I personally am willing to let my pension plan go completely and have only a 401 if the company is willing to up the contribution from the measly 2 percent to a real number that will actually make retirement a possibility without being destitute in my old age.
Chip my posts are not inaccurate, you my man have evolved into a completely different individual overnight, you are the mirror image of your former self. I can't see how all these innuendos being posted are creating any solutions for our futures as U employees. A320 is pissed too, but he sure comes across as being calm and reasonable. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know whatever it is you and a whole lot of other pilots are going to think it stinks big time. I also know striking is not even a sane option.
Peace Chip....Cav
----------------
On 1/26/2003 7:48:06 PM chipmunn wrote:
Cav:
Cav said: According to Chip and a few other outraged pilots the answer is to shut the doors and go home for good. ALPA can take a stand all day long but to what end, obviously the demise of U. So what does that accomplish, besides, THERE, we got them, we showed them who is in control. It just seems so incredibly senseless.
Chip comments: Cav, I just said I wasn't going to banter back and forth with posters, but I have three questions for you.
1. When did I say "the answer is to shut the doors and go home for good?"
2. How many employee groups are being asked to take a severe third concession and who are they?
3. What's your opinion of ALPA's financial analysis, put together by outside advisors, discussed on the January 24 code-a-phone?
I agree with you this all seems senseless, but all 12 MEC members and virtually every pilot is in agreement on this issue. Considering the history of labor relations on this property, that should tell you something when the pilots are in total agreement when the viability of the business enterprise is now at stake.
Chip
----------------
[/blockquote]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok Chip on number one; you never said that verbatim, that is correct, but the posts you wrote sure implied as much.
On number two; you already know that answer as well as we all do, it was never a level playing field from the beginning as Dave stated from the very start.
On number three; I have no idea because that was written with shall I say, a bit of bias pointed in the pilots direction. Read the company side read the pilots side, who is correct? I posted before that I personally am willing to let my pension plan go completely and have only a 401 if the company is willing to up the contribution from the measly 2 percent to a real number that will actually make retirement a possibility without being destitute in my old age.
Chip my posts are not inaccurate, you my man have evolved into a completely different individual overnight, you are the mirror image of your former self. I can't see how all these innuendos being posted are creating any solutions for our futures as U employees. A320 is pissed too, but he sure comes across as being calm and reasonable. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know whatever it is you and a whole lot of other pilots are going to think it stinks big time. I also know striking is not even a sane option.
Peace Chip....Cav
It appears that ALPA is trying to lead its rank and file down a road that could lead to disaster. The MEC should be trying to calm its members because it appears that the pension will be taken over by the PBGC. The pilot group is getting screwed on this but what would a job action accomplish? Unemployment for them and everyone at U. Now tell me who would hire a 55 yr old pilot with 5 yrs left to fly? No one! U has a lot of senior pilots and they would be crazy to try and shut the airline down. Not only did they lose their pension but they lost their income as well. This is a time for cool heads and rational thinking.
autofixer
Veteran
So should they continue to fly, knowing their pension plan was terminated to fund the AFA and IAM pension? How much money can you save in 5 or 6 years? Not enough.
Walk away from your mortgages and car payments...let the banks take them back. Let the domino effect start. Housing prices in PIT, PHL and CLT will plument. Pick up a camper for around $10,000 and move to the beach and fly banner towers.
Try to imagine the economic devastation to one employer areas like Moon and Beaver, PA. There is much more at stake here than pilot pensions. Whole towns are in danger. Do you live in one of those towns? How much will your house be worth(less)?
Walk away from your mortgages and car payments...let the banks take them back. Let the domino effect start. Housing prices in PIT, PHL and CLT will plument. Pick up a camper for around $10,000 and move to the beach and fly banner towers.
Try to imagine the economic devastation to one employer areas like Moon and Beaver, PA. There is much more at stake here than pilot pensions. Whole towns are in danger. Do you live in one of those towns? How much will your house be worth(less)?
Yes they should continue to fly. It is better to have a job with a small pension than no job with a small pension. A pilot should be able to get his/her house in order over the next few years to account for the smaller pension. Granted they want be able to live the high life they do now. But what they will recieve should be enough to maintain a nice standard of living. The job market sucks and if any pilot thinks they are going to go out and make what they are now making they have lost their minds. The industry is not what it used to be. ALPA needs to face facts that the PBGC is going to take over their pension plan and make the best deal posible with the company to create a new one.
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/27/2003 8
25 AM AIRMAIL wrote:
[P]Yes they should continue to fly. It is better to have a job with a small pension than no job with a small pension. A pilot should be able to get his/her house in order over the next few years to account for the smaller pension. Granted they want be able to live the high life they do now. But what they will recieve should be enough to maintain a nice standard of living. The job market sucks and if any pilot thinks they are going to go out and make what they are now making they have lost their minds. The industry is not what it used to be. ALPA needs to face facts that the PBGC is going to take over their pension plan and make the best deal posible with the company to create a new one. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P] Yes...GONE are the days where a company will take care of you for life. That is coming to an end in this country. I'm sure the pilot's will acquire some sort of plan (401K match). What we all need to be focused on is keeping a steady paying job. As far as the pilots keeping their same plan...you know the old saying "You can't get blood out of a turnip".[BR] Good Monday to all
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/27/2003 8
25 AM AIRMAIL wrote: [P]Yes they should continue to fly. It is better to have a job with a small pension than no job with a small pension. A pilot should be able to get his/her house in order over the next few years to account for the smaller pension. Granted they want be able to live the high life they do now. But what they will recieve should be enough to maintain a nice standard of living. The job market sucks and if any pilot thinks they are going to go out and make what they are now making they have lost their minds. The industry is not what it used to be. ALPA needs to face facts that the PBGC is going to take over their pension plan and make the best deal posible with the company to create a new one. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P] Yes...GONE are the days where a company will take care of you for life. That is coming to an end in this country. I'm sure the pilot's will acquire some sort of plan (401K match). What we all need to be focused on is keeping a steady paying job. As far as the pilots keeping their same plan...you know the old saying "You can't get blood out of a turnip".[BR] Good Monday to all
"So should they continue to fly, knowing their pension plan was terminated to fund the AFA and IAM pension? How much money can you save in 5 or 6 years? Not enough".
Whether you choose to fly or not should not be predicated on the idea that termination of your pension plan is to fund the AFA and IAM. That is inaccurate information and irresponsible of you to state this. Your plan will be terminated because there is not enough money to fund it, period. If the books do not soon show profit income for US Airways, then I suspect other pensions will become candidates for termination also. How much money will you save in 5 or 6 years if you don't continue to fly? Not to beat a dead horse here, but shouldn't you guys/gals stay to fight another day?
Whether you choose to fly or not should not be predicated on the idea that termination of your pension plan is to fund the AFA and IAM. That is inaccurate information and irresponsible of you to state this. Your plan will be terminated because there is not enough money to fund it, period. If the books do not soon show profit income for US Airways, then I suspect other pensions will become candidates for termination also. How much money will you save in 5 or 6 years if you don't continue to fly? Not to beat a dead horse here, but shouldn't you guys/gals stay to fight another day?
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