Pilot Whose Gun Went Off Back on Job

[N965VJ]

The pilot in question did nothing that hasn't happened countless times to full-time law enforcement officers in every department.

DEA Agent shoots self in foot during school presentation on gun safety video.

"I’m the only one in this room professional enough in this room to carry a Glock 40"... BANG!

Its a ridiculous program that lets typical yahoos feel important carrying a gun.

As Cyndi Lauper sang “♫ I see your true colors shining through ♫â€￾

 

[freedom]

Accidents happen .... accidents that can cause serious and massive loss of life cannot however be overlooked .

I haven't read all the details on the case , but from what i've seen on this message board and the news link , it almost sounds like negligence .

I don’t think this man should be flying for our company … they should reassign him to another department ( ramp , in-flight whatever ) but his lack of judgment in transporting a deadly weapon seems to indicate he may have competency issues ….

 

[FA Mikey]

Because if you were not in the cockpit with him, or have never talked to his F/O, then you are just speculating at this point. You have no idea as to what actually happened in the cockpit that day do you?

Sure we do. The Captain removed the gun from the holster and had a negligent discharge.

 

[HPDriver]

Because if you were not in the cockpit with him, or have never talked to his F/O, then you are just speculating at this point. You have no idea as to what actually happened in the cockpit that day do you?

There is no speculation. Many of us have seen the pictures and have been briefed as to what happened.

It was completely his fault.

And blaming the holster!?!!? YGTBSM

 

[pjirish317]

There is no speculation. Many of us have seen the pictures and have been briefed as to what happened.

It was completely his fault.

And blaming the holster!?!!? YGTBSM
[/quote/]

You were not there were you? Being briefed is not being there. Bottom line he is back to work, like it or not. If he is not part of the FFDO program anymore, what is the problem. I still do not see you or anybody else up in arms over DP getting yet another DUI, and, yet he is still fit to run the airline? What is that about.

 

[hp_fa]

I fail to see the equation with the poor judgment involving Parker's multiple DUI's and his fitness to run an airline from the ground vs. a commercial airline pilot exhibiting poor judgment while operating an aircraft in flight with passengers on board. I guess you could take the argument further saying Parker did not cause any property damage but the pilot did damage the plane. So someone please educate me how these two acts by these two people can be equated.

 

[pjirish317]

I fail to see the equation with the poor judgment involving Parker's multiple DUI's and his fitness to run an airline from the ground vs. a commercial airline pilot exhibiting poor judgment while operating an aircraft in flight with passengers on board. I guess you could take the argument further saying Parker did not cause any property damage but the pilot did damage the plane. So someone please educate me how these two acts by these two people can be equated.

Just because DP did not cause an accident makes it right? Makes it not "poor judgement"?

 

[necigrad]

Video link of the holster.

I've watched the video, becoming a bit more informed about the holster. Let me tell you a little about myself, then my opinion. Please do not answer anything that shouldn't (even though a rather secretive program has had its details pretty much splayed over the internet).

I am not a gun owner, though I will likely be buying one within 6 months, probably quite sooner, and have been thinking about it for quite a while. In the process of considering this I have had instruction from two experienced persons; one was an NRA instructor and the other a local PD instructor. I have tried out three Glocks (IMO effectivly the same generically) and a S&W 9mm. I am by no means an experienced person with firearms.

Having said that I have watched the video. IF everything there was correct and accurate it leads to two questions. One, from how the problem was explained it's not the holster but the lock. And the problem with the lock is that that if the weapon becomes dislodged in the holster when it is then locked the lock can be on the wrong side of the trigger. Now, I'm no genious, but wouldn't ensuring the firearm was properly seated in the holster BEFORE the lock was put in place eliminate the problem? Second, if you don't chamber a round when you load the weapon (even if you do actually, but I'm playing it cautious) you should be able to quite safely unload the weapon. Pop the magazine out and you have a paperweight regardless of what side of the trigger the lock is on.

Like I said, I'm not proficient with weapons. I'm not familiar with the procedures. It sounds like there are some really simple procedures that can take place to eliminate the risk to me though.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

And, here's a quote from an article by the Associated press...

...<the pilot's> case was strengthened when the Department of Homeland Security faulted the design of holsters used by pilots who carry their weapons on board planes. The department's inspector general said the design increased the chance of accidental discharge when pilots inserted their guns in the holsters.

The name was removed by me. It's irrelevant.

So now the know-it-alls can switch to another topic. They've lost this discussion.

 

[Ttailfan]

I'm not an FFDO, but I looked into the program. Your above description sounds very much like what the FFDO program constitutes as far as training and continuing requalification.

Do you really think the federal government just hands a pistol to any pilot that sends in the application and expects no training or continued proficiency? It certainly sounds that way from your post. You couldn't be more wrong.

The pilot in question did nothing that hasn't happened countless times to full-time law enforcement officers in every department. Thankfully it doesn't happen often, and probably rarely results in injury. But this pilot is a human being, just like you and your law enforcement colleagues. So, how about skipping the training/proficiency/qualification lectures?

My comments do not impune the FFDO program at all. I stated that I do not know what the criteria is for it. I stated what I do know from my LEO experience with respect to training. I never said the FFDO program was inferior. I only stated that I do not have first hand knowledge of it and regardless, there was a wreckless discharge of the weapon and that could only be due to some sort of mishandling. Maybe remedial training will solve that, maybe not. I don't know the specfiics of the incident and investigation.

I have also said that I support the reinstatement of his job as a pilot. But I do question his suitability to possess a firearm in the cockpit.

 

[Ttailfan]

This rant belongs in an NRA forum. I'm happy the man got his job back. And I don't like guns. So, we'll agree to disagree on that issue, but on the topic at hand I'm glad the man is once again able to pursue his career.

First off, my post was not a rant. It was a factual statement about guns and asking the original poster that I was in reply to why they are against guns. I also stated that if they don't like guns, that's fine but as the oft' said cliche' "Guns don't kill people, people do" is true. The gun is just an inanimate object.

And second, that post would be fine on the NRA website. And its fine that you don't like guns. That's your choice. Never said you had to like them, embrace them or accept them.

So you're right...we'll agree to disagree. But what I posted was hardly a "rant."

 

[FA Mikey]

I've watched the video, becoming a bit more informed about the holster.

That video give you no information about the holster. I wonder why they dont show the locking release.

Having said that I have watched the video. IF everything there was correct and accurate it leads to two questions. One, from how the problem was explained it's not the holster but the lock. And the problem with the lock is that that if the weapon becomes dislodged in the holster when it is then locked the lock can be on the wrong side of the trigger. Now, I'm no genious, but wouldn't ensuring the firearm was properly seated in the holster BEFORE the lock was put in place eliminate the problem?

BINGO! Yes it is called common sense and simple gun safety. Before putting something next to the trigger of a loaded weapon, you make sure it is seated correctly in the holster.

Second, if you don't chamber a round when you load the weapon (even if you do actually, but I'm playing it cautious) you should be able to quite safely unload the weapon. Pop the magazine out and you have a paperweight regardless of what side of the trigger the lock is on.

You need to chamber a round in a semi auto. Otherwise you do have a paper weight.

 

[necigrad]

You need to chamber a round in a semi auto. Otherwise you do have a paper weight.

Actually I knew that, but my understanding was that a round should not be chambered unless you're ready to shoot someone. I know there's all sorts of philisophical viewpoints on that, logical and illogical on both sides, but it's been expressed to me as a basic of gun safety. If you're properly trained though, you "shouldn't" have a discharge even with a round chambered.

 

[cynic]

Actually I knew that, but my understanding was that a round should not be chambered unless you're ready to shoot someone. I know there's all sorts of philisophical viewpoints on that, logical and illogical on both sides, but it's been expressed to me as a basic of gun safety. If you're properly trained though, you "shouldn't" have a discharge even with a round chambered.

FFDOs are taught to come up shooting and ask questions later. If there is a situation that warrants producing a weapon, you may not have time or the extra hand free to rack the slide to chamber a round.

 

[700UW]

Bottom line is you can all complain and post what you think, he got his job back because of arbitration, but arbitration awards cannot be selective.