Pilots already pulling the ejection handle on AA

[WorldTraveler]

The issue is the FAA rarely visits foreign MROs and the workers are not held to the same standards as US mechanics.

I understand your argument but the FAA does visit US air carriers and holds them responsibility for the airworthiness of their planes regardless of where the work is done.

I understand the passion behind what you are pushing for the reality is that the general problem don't see it as a problem because the system to ensure US aircraft are safe does work. And part of that system is people like you who catch the work that is done wrong by foreign shops. In many people's minds, the question then is not whether foreign repair shops are safe but rather the aircraft is safe by the time it flies with passengers in the US - and to the credit of many good mechanics and pilots, those problems are worked out before the plane is released into service.
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For perspective, consider that there are far more people who are sickened in the US because of bad imported food and medicine and yet there is no call to totally ban imported food or medicine - although at times there are embargoes on food from countries that have had quality control problems -and sometimes those embargoes have been aimed at US produced food.
It would seem that the parallel in the aviation industry would be to identify those shops that consistenly do bad work and take on those companies - and some may be in the US - where the FAA most certainly could reach them. There are clearly many companies that do decent quality work both in the US and abroad.
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We live in a global economy and aviation is one of the cornerstones of global commerce. There just is no basis for arguing that across the board outsourcing should be banned - and perhaps part of the reason organized labor won't take it on is because they realize it has virtually no chance of winning. Sometimes you have to pick the battles that you can win.
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Of course the irony of this discussion relative to the title of this thread is that there are US pilots who are willing to go to fly for airlines who most certainly do not do even a fraction of their maintenance in US shops.

 

[chris perry]

The real issue is money,cheap labor. The costs of foreign repair stations,would dramatically increase if they were held to the same standards.
Just the issue of drug testing,background checks and certification of their mechanic's would start to level the cost disparity. Plus there is no OSHA,EPA etc.
But wait most couldn't even pass a background check,you look at Quantas contractor's using inmates to clean their aircraft until it was discovered.

Answer this why won't the TSA issue a security plan even after 911 happened and their sole purpose is to ensure Transportation safety? It just got put off another year.... 10 years later still waiting,they won't issue a security plan for foreign MRO's...so there is none.It's business as usual...no oversight. After all they were created just for that purpose. Why search old ladies when you leave the back door open in China and abroad?

 

[eolesen]

To be fair, the issues of drug use and criminal activity aren't as present in other countries as they are in the US... The US, Canada and countries in Europe top the list of countries with the highest frequency of drug use and availability...

Get into the poorer economies, and most workers don't have the disposable income for travel, let alone recreational drugs. In China and other countries, there are also some serious cultural differences in that if you get busted for petty crime or drugs, you're likely to just disappear, with your family getting a bill for the executioner's time & materials.

One of the reasons that TSA has been unable to come up with a uniform security plan offshore is the difference in personal privacy laws. Not every country shredded their protections in the name of "safety"...

From what I've seen around the globe, I'd say easily 90% of what the TSA and FAA require US airlines and airports to do is simply a matter of Safety Theater. That includes some (not all) of the stuff related to background checks, and just about all of the random drug/alcohol testing mandates.

I've fired people for failing random tests, but I can only think of one example where I ever saw someone at work who was clearly under the influence, and it didn't take a random test to figure it out...

 

[CactUS4Ever]

Has there been some sort of poll of the "flying public" that you base this opinion on?

Priceline,Orbitz,Travelocity,Kayak,cheapfares,shall I go on and on and on. The loyalty is gone.care All people care about is getting from point A to point B the cheapest way. Safety went out the window 15 years ago

 

[Buck]

Priceline,Orbitz,Travelocity,Kayak,cheapfares,shall I go on and on and on. The loyalty is gone.care All people care about is getting from point A to point B the cheapest way. Safety went out the window 15 years ago

While you are correct, the PBS.org series on "Flying Cheaper" is quite interesting.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Priceline,Orbitz,Travelocity,Kayak,cheapfares,shall I go on and on and on. The loyalty is gone.care All people care about is getting from point A to point B the cheapest way. Safety went out the window 15 years ago

public transportation is a commodity business - no different than oil or wheat or a bank account. People buy based on the cheapest price. The only reason why carriers were able to differentiate themselves in the pass was because they did not have similar route systems..... each tried to leverage the strengths of its own network and gain the largest number of premium paying business passengers in the process.
Many people underestimate the importance of NYC in consolidation, but it can't be overlooked that AA was once a NYC based airline and has long had one of the richest portfolios of corporate contracts in the industry.
DL took 15 years after it bought the Pan Am NYC assets to decide to get serious about NYC and only after CO proved that NYC could be a valuable hub. DL aggressively started growing NYC during BK (also shows that you don't have to wait until you are out of BK to start addressing revenue issues) and then accelerated the process with the slot swap - and the first set of new flights at LGA will launch in a couple weeks. For its part, UA realized it can't compete in the corporate market without having a larger presence in NYC and CO's route system complements UA's nicely. B6 now is sandwiched by the network carriers who are delivering higher value products in a slot controlled city where it is alot easier to gain revenue premiums through upgraded products.
DL and UA are locked in a battle for dominance in the NYC market - and with it the ability to move alot of premium revenue, while AA must attempt to not only maintain its presence in NYC, LAX, and CHI but add enough value to its network to offset its smaller size.....
Other cities like the DFW metroplex or Chicago or ATL have corporate traffic but none compares with NYC.... it is this type of building on the strengths of your network that carriers use to distinguish their product and make it less of a commodity.
Corporate contracts don't mean that another carrier won't match the price of the carrier that holds the contract - just that one carrier is willing to offer a deep enough discount to lock up a block of business.
When enough blocks of business can be combined, then the business becomes less about commodity and more about revenue differentiation.

 

[cf6mech]

Nope, thats why we need a labor party.

very good comrade.....no labor party for me thank you very much.