pilots and flight attendants BOTH sign a merger agreement!

[700UW]

I have never said US is the best, right now US is a niche airline, and is the smallest of the majors.

Does a mom and pop business pay the same as a huge corporation?

 

[robbedagain]

i believe that us would be profitable even if it just fees if the pilots and f/as had higer pay on par with the ua and dl it was scott kirby i think that said the fees are what made the airline profitable i could be wrong on that. but it was one of the first profits after the fees took effect that that comment was made. 1aa what would you do if and only if us and aa do merge? i know you and probably most aa folks dont want a merger but the reality is its up to the creditors at this point in time as aa is ch11 the bigger question is how long til we hear one way or the other..... if the 2 airlines do merge i think it will solve a lot of the pilots issues but again only time will tell

 

[jimntx]

I would like to know how so many at LCC are sure that a merger will solve that intractable pilot seniority issue. If the US East pilots refused to accept the arbitrated decision (that they demanded), what makes you think they are going to accept the decision of the next arbitrator with whom they don't happen to agree. What if the arbitrator decides that the former TWA pilots were wronged by APA, and decides to correct that wrong at the same time? A LOT of LCC pilots, both East and West, would find themselves down toward the bottom of a combined list, or even furloughed. (I think anyone who is halfway sane knows that not all of any workgroup are going to keep their jobs in a merger--with the possible exception of the management workgroup.)

I think the old saying of "be careful what you wish for, you might get it" applies here.

 

[700UW]

There is no way the APA want DOH. DOH places 85% of the east pilots in the top 50% of the combined list.

DOH places 2500 east pilots (77.1%) with 2500 american pilots in the first 5000 (28.5%).
DOH places 5950 american pilots in the bottom 8600 (69%) and only 560 east pilots in the bottom 8600 (6.5%). Essentially stapling a majority of american pilots to the bottom half of the combined list.

 

[jimntx]

Ok, I wasn't aware of that. Now, what if an arbitrator goes by DOH, and the American pilots (who are still a majority in a merger) decide to pull a US East trick, vote out APA and start another union that chooses to ignore the arbitrated SIL? This could go on forever.

 

[Kev3188]

I would like to know how so many at LCC are sure that a merger will solve that intractable pilot seniority issue. If the US East pilots refused to accept the arbitrated decision (that they demanded), what makes you think they are going to accept the decision of the next arbitrator with whom they don't happen to agree. What if the arbitrator decides that the former TWA pilots were wronged by APA, and decides to correct that wrong at the same time? A LOT of LCC pilots, both East and West, would find themselves down toward the bottom of a combined list, or even furloughed. (I think anyone who is halfway sane knows that not all of any workgroup are going to keep their jobs in a merger--with the possible exception of the management workgroup.)

I think the old saying of "be careful what you wish for, you might get it" applies here.

Indeed. I don't know how running the numbers would play out, but maybe an SLI using the percentile method (with a fence or two) would be the best way forward?

 

[blue collar]

I have never said US is the best, right now US is a niche airline, and is the smallest of the majors.

Does a mom and pop business pay the same as a huge corporation?

Us air isn't a mom and pop, it is a corporation. You think their employees aren't worth that of AA, UA, DL, WN?

US amts make a little bit more per hour than AA. Doesn't speak well to the fact US is making money, and AA isn't.

The IAM has been in negotiations for 2 years for M&R. They started in jan 2011, and continue for the foreseeable future.

 

[Bob Owens]

There arent in just openers, they have been negotiating for a while all ready.

US Mechanics make more than AA mechanics.

The ramp, mechanic and related and maintenance training specialists all have the IAMNPF.

And AA froze its pensions, meaning they dont contribute to it anymore.

You really dont understand what is going on do you?

US has been in business since the 30s, and its filed chapter 11 twice, last time it filed was 2004, eight years ago and is profitable and AA is not.

Count TWA since its part of AA has filed bankruptcy several times then, now hasnt it?

Are you counting America Wests BK? How about Mohawk?

 

[Bob Owens]

First of all they dont contribute to a frozen plan, thats the idea of freezing it.

Word games.

Perhaps no "new" contributions are made but they still have the liability to fund prior committments and have to fund shortfalls. The figure thats been bounced around I think was $500 milion. If what you were saying was true then why would any carrrier dump it on the PBGC and let them own the new company??

 

[1AA]

First of all they dont contribute to a frozen plan, thats the idea of freezing it.


US AMTs make more than their counterparts at AA.

US is a profitable airline, AA is in chapter 11, so who is the failure?

US tried once to merge with DL while they were in chapter 11, so its one airline not "airlines"

The IAM has been in negotiations about a year, as well as the CWA.

So once again, do the research and educate yourself cause your posting wrong information.

So if USAir is such a profitable airline why go after a loser company like AA?

 

[FWAAA]

And AA froze its pensions, meaning they dont contribute to it anymore.

That's false. AA employees won't accrue any additional benefits past the freeze date, but AA will continue to make contributions to them for decades unless the pensions are terminated in a distress termination and turned over to the PBGC.

Delta and AA will have the largest pension funding obligations going forward, followed by UA (CO froze but did not terminate its pensions). US on its own has no funding obligations as it terminated all pensions. Check out the Delta 10-K to see how much DL contributes to its pension plans each year.

The source you cited for the definition of "frozen plan" is wrong. It looks like a wiki-type source. But I don't expect you to admit that.

US has been in business since the 30s, and its filed chapter 11 twice, last time it filed was 2004, eight years ago and is profitable and AA is not.

Count TWA since its part of AA has filed bankruptcy several times then, now hasnt it?

And you really need to take the time and read what is posted and do some research and educate yourself.

Irony alert.

Yes, US is reporting some profits lately. Since the merger, the cumulative results are losses. US hasn't made a dime (net) since US and HP were combined.

As has been pointed out before (perhaps hundreds of times), US is currently profitable solely due to the very low pilot and FA pay and benefits. Nothing more, nothing less. Doesn't take a financial wizard as CEO to report profits if your unionized pilots and FAs willingly work for less than nonunion pilots and FAs.

 

[FWAAA]

Word games.

Perhaps no "new" contributions are made but they still have the liability to fund prior committments and have to fund shortfalls. The figure thats been bounced around I think was $500 milion. If what you were saying was true then why would any carrrier dump it on the PBGC and let them own the new company??

Exactly. 700UW is simply incorrect. His "source" is similarly wrong. Frozen plans generally require lots of contributions by the company but the benefit accrual is frozen.

 

[Bob Owens]

As has been pointed out before (perhaps hundreds of times), US is currently profitable solely due to the very low pilot and FA pay and benefits. Nothing more, nothing less.

Very low mechanics wages as well, but I tend to agree, low mechanics wages dont usually drive up profits, if anything they drive them down.

Maybe thats why AA will fail, they didnt get their Crew pay nearly as low as US but they lowered their mechanics pay below US.

AAs flawed plan is to rely on New Airplanes to increase reliability, but the new airplanes will allow them to reduce mechanics in the only place that was in favor of the new agreement, Tulsa OH, and their isnt much those guys can do when something fails at departure time on the line.

There isnt much a pilot or FA can do, other than write stuff up compared to a mechanic as far as affecting the schedule without negatively affecting their own earnings. An out of service plane and missed trips is lost revenue for them, the opposite for mechanics. Why would a mechanic who is under paid give his best effort in return for the least pay? If he gives less effort, it can give him more opportunity to work at rates 50% higher by working OT. So if you cut the pay and end up paying a lot more in OT then where are the savings? Not only do they end up not saving what they thought they would in wages but they lose revenue.

 

[robbedagain]

scott kirby made mention once that the fees are the reason why us made profits the first year after the fees began not the low wages

 

[700UW]

And AA was the airline that first started charging for checked baggage.