Pilots new proposal and the Me Too Clause

[olderguyAMT]

The company doesn't care whether or not the unions vote for or against "the worst, most incomplete and irresponsible contract proposal." They will simply have the judge abrogate the contracts we have and then they will impose the term sheets. It is a win/win for them.

Question is what do we do about that? What are our options?

Could be the best plan for us is to play the same stalling game that the co. has used for years.
Doug Parker is still waiting........

 

[FWAAA]

It isn't the unsecured creditors, it is the "priority" debt holders and the Creditors. Everyone else gets the left overs, if any.

AA isn't being liquidated, and thus the unsecured creditors won't "get the left overs, if any." Methinks you know just enough about Chapter 11 to be misleading.

Priority claims consist of administrative expenses, like the lawyers, accountants, investment bankers, consultants and others, and they're being paid on an on-going basis. Other priority claims are various taxes, most of which don't apply to AA. Employee claims for wages unpaid at the filing are also entitled to priority.

The unsecured creditors will possess the vast majority of all claims, and none of them will be satisfied in cash. Those unsecured creditors, like the AA employees (pilots so far), will split up the newly issued stock in the reorganized AMR when all the existing stock is canceled, and that stock may have a value on the date of bankruptcy exit of perhaps several billion dollars.

 

[Buster CRC]

.

 

[Rogallo]

Nothing like running an airline with all your pilots, flight attendants, mechanics and your gate agents all pissed off.

Yep, and we all keep coming to work...!!!

 

[jimntx]

Which is exactly why the company keeps screwing over the pilots, flight attendants, mechanics and gate agents. They know they can get away with it. Now, that is easy for me to say because I don't have to depend upon this job to pay my bills. But, as long as the dog doesn't bite you, you can keep kicking it.

 

[NYer]

AA isn't being liquidated, and thus the unsecured creditors won't "get the left overs, if any." Methinks you know just enough about Chapter 11 to be misleading.

Priority claims consist of administrative expenses, like the lawyers, accountants, investment bankers, consultants and others, and they're being paid on an on-going basis. Other priority claims are various taxes, most of which don't apply to AA. Employee claims for wages unpaid at the filing are also entitled to priority.

The unsecured creditors will possess the vast majority of all claims, and none of them will be satisfied in cash. Those unsecured creditors, like the AA employees (pilots so far), will split up the newly issued stock in the reorganized AMR when all the existing stock is canceled, and that stock may have a value on the date of bankruptcy exit of perhaps several billion dollars.

If you say so, but..."An unsecured creditor is a creditor other than a preferential creditor that does not have the benefit of any security interests in the assets of the debtor. In the event of the bankruptcy of the debtor, the unsecured creditors usually obtain a pari passu (two securities or obligations that have equal rights to payment.) distribution out of the assets of the insolvent company on a liquidation in accordance with the size of their debt after the secured creditors have enforced their security and the preferential creditors have exhausted their claims."

 

[Frank Szabo]

Yep, and we all keep coming to work...!!!

... just to see what the SOBs will do next ...

I've been to a goat roping and a few county fairs but this bunch in Centrepork beats all I've EVER stepped in.

 

[luvthe9]

Could be the best plan for us is to play the same stalling game that the co. has used for years.
Doug Parker is still waiting........

You guys would be better off on your own than hooking up with our airline. Parker is really bad at running this place, and still has not merged. Visit the US Pilots labor side if you want to see how bad the situation is. Totally out of control. Work it out yourselves and get a new CEO. You will be much better off. You have a good airline no matter what anyone tells you and you aren't going away.

 

[FWAAA]

If you say so, but..."An unsecured creditor is a creditor other than a preferential creditor that does not have the benefit of any security interests in the assets of the debtor. In the event of the bankruptcy of the debtor, the unsecured creditors usually obtain a pari passu (two securities or obligations that have equal rights to payment.) distribution out of the assets of the insolvent company on a liquidation in accordance with the size of their debt after the secured creditors have enforced their security and the preferential creditors have exhausted their claims."

Your quote above describes what happens if a company liquidates in bankruptcy, which AA is not planning to do.

When a company reorganizes (as AA is doing, just like every other formerly bankrupt legacy airline), the secured creditors (airplanes, etc) continue to get their payments (unless the debtor surrenders the collateral) and everyone else (the unsecured creditors) will share the newly issued stock of the debtor upon confirmation of the plan of reorganization. So everyone holding unsecured debt plus the employees (and the PBGC if any plans are terminated) will get an allocation of the new stock.

And, of course, people holding the current AMR stock (whatever its current ticker symbol is) will get nothing.

 

[FWAAA]

Yep, and we all keep coming to work...!!!

Exactly.

Companies generally don't reduce wages, even in bankruptcy, to such low levels that everyone quits - reducing wages and benefits to that level would not be rational, and I can't think of a bankrupt company that has ever used abrogation to then impose wages so low that nobody would work for them.

Thankfully, the 13th Amendment to the Constitution prevents the company from requiring that anyone work for the new wages. Of course, the bankruptcy law in the Second Circuit prohibits collective action in response to contract abrogation, but it does not prevent individual reaction. If abrogation results in wages that are too low, too few employees will work for those wages, they will resign to take advantage of more lucrative opportunities and the company would have to increase wages. You know, the same rational decision-making process that causes wages to find equalibrium for the 90-some percent of the private-sector workforce that does not collectively bargain for their wages and benefits. In short, the free market.

 

[anotherdelay]

You guys would be better off on your own than hooking up with our airline. Parker is really bad at running this place, and still has not merged. Visit the US Pilots labor side if you want to see how bad the situation is. Totally out of control. Work it out yourselves and get a new CEO. You will be much better off. You have a good airline no matter what anyone tells you and you aren't going away.

Might be this best thing to happen to your work groups as well.

Let's start by stating Parker and Kirby, saved your backsides and took both airlines and turned it into something world class. Don't take it personally but both your airlines were considered, third world 5 short years ago. How they were able to accomplish this is nothing short of miraculous considering, the labor, economic, and fuel issues, the past 5 years. Basically, both airlines should have been chapter 7. Now that doesn't discount some labor issues, borne about by legitimate complaints, but many of those were caused more by past managments, than by the current.

Now that said, the merger of our airlines, brings synergies that are not to be understated, and the potential to thrive will lead to better a work environment for all parties involved. Although Bond McKaskill, handles the seniority issue, it won't make everyone happy, but the opportunity for better work conditions and wages, come from syngeries of both airlines that the stand alone for you guys due to your lcc status doesn't allow for now. Get behind the merger for this alone, Parker and Kirby have never been your enemy, the enemy is economic climate we are all currently involved in.

 

[Barfbag]

the enemy is economic climate we are all currently involved in.S

It''s not the current economy, but airline deregulation that has bought AMR and HP into a possible merger. This industry has been going bust for years. That's why good managers like Crandall jumped ship long ago. As long as John Q. Public can shop online for lower and lower fares, this madness called bankruptcy court will continue.

The public has no brand loyalty anymore, they just want to fly " free " if possible.

Now with gas prices falling nationwide more people will take to the roads meaning even less passengers to cram into those seats, and even less profits this summer.

Stick a fork in this turkey, it's done

The only winners the Corporate Officers, Board of Directors and Lawyers.

Everyone else gets the boner.

 

[NYer]

AA isn't being liquidated, and thus the unsecured creditors won't "get the left overs, if any." Methinks you know just enough about Chapter 11 to be misleading.

Priority claims consist of administrative expenses, like the lawyers, accountants, investment bankers, consultants and others, and they're being paid on an on-going basis. Other priority claims are various taxes, most of which don't apply to AA. Employee claims for wages unpaid at the filing are also entitled to priority.

The unsecured creditors will possess the vast majority of all claims, and none of them will be satisfied in cash. Those unsecured creditors, like the AA employees (pilots so far), will split up the newly issued stock in the reorganized AMR when all the existing stock is canceled, and that stock may have a value on the date of bankruptcy exit of perhaps several billion dollars.

You're wrong.

 

[lineguy43]

Might be this best thing to happen to your work groups as well.

Let's start by stating Parker and Kirby, saved your backsides and took both airlines and turned it into something world class. Don't take it personally but both your airlines were considered, third world 5 short years ago. How they were able to accomplish this is nothing short of miraculous considering, the labor, economic, and fuel issues, the past 5 years. Basically, both airlines should have been chapter 7. Now that doesn't discount some labor issues, borne about by legitimate complaints, but many of those were caused more by past managments, than by the current.

Now that said, the merger of our airlines, brings synergies that are not to be understated, and the potential to thrive will lead to better a work environment for all parties involved. Although Bond McKaskill, handles the seniority issue, it won't make everyone happy, but the opportunity for better work conditions and wages, come from syngeries of both airlines that the stand alone for you guys due to your lcc status doesn't allow for now. Get behind the merger for this alone, Parker and Kirby have never been your enemy, the enemy is economic climate we are all currently involved in.

Well lovethe9 is living it over there and being world class is up for debate. One thing I do know is that merger US/HP has been FAR from flawless. Especially when you still have two pilot groups flying different contracts how many years later? Actually as it pains me to say it being an XNWA guy but that NW/DL merger is about as good as it gets in mergers. I don't think merging a UsAir which is far from having stable relations between labor and management and adding another disgruntled group that has been abused for a lot of years is going to make a great airline...Just my opinion your milage my vary..

 

[Birdman]

Supposedly there were secret discussions held yesterday with the 5 TWU ratified groups in regard to the "me too" clause and yet the clause has not been triggered by all 7 being ratified. Another blatant display of incompetence on the part of the union to misplace their priorities.