Pilots want new union

[Junebug172]

Exactly my point = the respective MEC's are a nightmare produced by Alpo...not the line pilots, so all the previous 3 months' "The west said/did/etc" vs "The east said/did/etc" as being in any way a responsibility of any line members is nonsense. Imho...we've all been done poorly by Alpo, and not by mutual malicious intent, nor actions on the part of any line pilots. I'll submit for consideration the notion that Alpo's organizational setup "needs work" to say the least.

Stephan works at the direction of the reps. You need to look closer for the blame. Its not National, but your reps with PHL leading the way.

That's where you want to start.

Just wondering. Did you know that your MC wanted to come off DOH so as to gain some wiggle room in negotiations? You know who threatened them with recall if they did?

 

[cactusflyer]

Rumor is that West will soon have a bid that will include about 50 upgrades.

Actually, it is 49 upgrades. 40 on the airbus and 9 on the 757. PHX based. According to the flight deck I had for my last leg home, it was confirmed in a west ALPA MEC hotline. So, it appears your "rumor" was pretty accurate. Just off by one. 😉 😀

 

[EastUS]

You know who threatened them with recall if they did?

Neg...don't know that info myself.

I don't disregard your point as per working upwards on the blame ladder. We'll stay on opposite sides of the fence as regards the fix for such though. I just do not feel that said layers of inacessability to the membership should exist in any proper union. Such serves only to breed little nestings of permanent "politicians"/snakes who's only real goal is to slither their way "up", and increase the "power" and income base of Alpo, and thus make secure their own "phoney-baloney jobs". These people aren't "pilots" in any real sense anymore. How many MEC members, of whatever tribal persuasion, fly much at all?..outside of traveling first class to BS conferences and various harrumphing festivals. Do they fly the line at nat'l? isn't it just too cute to see that bloated leech Prater dressed up in his "airline captain" costume? It all sickens me.

 

[Bear96]

Exactly my point = the respective MEC's are a nightmare produced by Alpo...not the line pilots, so all the previous 3 months' "The west said/did/etc" vs "The east said/did/etc" as being in any way a responsibility of any line members is nonsense.

You apparently do not understand some of the basics of labor law. There isn't time to cover it all, so let's just review the most basic point: as a member of a union, your union leaders agree on your behalf to all things related to your terms and conditions of employment, and you are legally bound by those agreements. You don't get to pick and choose only those things you personally like and ignore those things you personally don't like.

If you did not accept this principle and did not want to abide by it, you should have chosen a career path that did not involve a unionized position.

 

[N924PS]

Stephan works at the direction of the reps. You need to look closer for the blame. Its not National, but your reps with PHL leading the way.

That's where you want to start.

Just wondering. Did you know that your MC wanted to come off DOH so as to gain some wiggle room in negotiations? You know who threatened them with recall if they did?

The reps work at the direction of their constituents. The PHL reps are doing just that.

 

[Junebug172]

The reps work at the direction of their constituents. The PHL reps are doing just that.

Yes, you are correct.

But it takes leadership to tell your constituents that what they want may not be the best way to go.

Those guys lack that leadership quality.

 

[Phoenix]

Yes, you are correct.

But it takes leadership to tell your constituents that what they want may not be the best way to go.

Those guys lack that leadership quality.

So PHL wasn't leading where you want to go? That makes them bad leaders? But I thought you said that it takes leadership to lead to the best place even if people don't want to go there. 🙄

But now you want them to go were you want to so they can be good leaders.

 

[EastUS]

You don't get to pick and choose only those things you personally like and ignore those things you personally don't like.

If you did not accept this principle and did not want to abide by it, you should have chosen a career path that did not involve a unionized position.

On that note (and side-stepping back to the Pledge discussion with tongue in cheek😉: As a citizen of the USA, you don't get to pick and choose governmental policy decisions that you personally don't like. If you did not accept this principle...you shouldn't have chosen a life that involved being born here

My thoughts are that this Nic thing's no direct product of the line pilots of either side, and that it's fully time for Alpo to "GO", for many reasons beyond just the Nic business

 

[Junebug172]

Neg...don't know that info myself.

I don't disregard your point as per working upwards on the blame ladder. We'll stay on opposite sides of the fence as regards the fix for such though. I just do not feel that said layers of inacessability to the membership should exist in any proper union. Such serves only to breed little nestings of permanent "politicians"/snakes who's only real goal is to slither their way "up", and increase the "power" and income base of Alpo, and thus make secure their own "phoney-baloney jobs". These people aren't "pilots" in any real sense anymore. How many MEC members, of whatever tribal persuasion, fly much at all?..outside of traveling first class to BS conferences and various harrumphing festivals. Do they fly the line at nat'l? isn't it just too cute to see that bloated leech Prater dressed up in his "airline captain" costume? It all sickens me.

Call your MEC office and ask them to email you a copy of the resolution pertaining to DOH and the merger committee. If you trust your reps, then ask them directly why they went in that direction.

And as for structure, I personally believe the system is sound. The biggest shortcoming is apathy and the lack of pro-activity on the part of the line pilot.

Your Rep is a part of the MEC when they are in session. It is your rep that carries your message to the entire AAA union where he interacts with the other reps doing the same thing. Debates ensue and resolutions are passed. The MEC officers are merely mouthpieces and administrators running the day-to-day operations of the entire AAA union.

Your MEC is a part of the BoD when it comes to National and sets its policy. It all starts with the line pilot working all the way down to Prater.

It is the line pilot that is responsible for watching his rep. If you don't like what he's doing, recall him.

And as an FYI, being a former officer, I've never travelled FC, attended conferences that were BS (very worthwhile), and avoid any "harrumphing festivals" as they tend to waster my time and keep me away from family and friends.

Not to say that there isn't any abuse because there is. But you get that in any structure and its eventually dealt with accordingly. National watches the bucks pretty well as does the government.

And most of the guys I've worked with within and across airlines are very hardworking and take this stuff personally.

So PHL wasn't leading where you want to go? That makes them bad leaders? But I thought you said that it takes leadership to lead to the best place even if people don't want to go there. 🙄

But now you want them to go were you want to so they can be good leaders.

Hmmm, kind of a dumb post, but I'll give it a shot.

Maintaining only one position with NO flexibility was a VERY bad place to be during merger negotiations. Nicolau thought so as did your MC who, by the way, asked your MEC to move away from it.

With no flexibility and an inability to negotiate, arbitration was the only option.

And here you are.

 

[EastUS]

And most of the guys I've worked with within and across airlines are very hardworking and take this stuff personally.

I was also Alpo involved at a previous airline for a bit, and I couldn't find much good to say about the conferences/etc...other than they were a "vacation" from actual work.

There are people in Alpo that take their duties seriously, but far too few Imho. I also honestly feel that the Alpo structure's just too flawed to "work right" in general, and utterly fails to serve the needs of the line pilots that actually pay the Prater sorts his half million a year for harrumphing stress. It's hardly limited to Prater and Nat'l; If the average pilot was fully cognizant of the compensation given to Alpo people in general (how they can, and do simply drop a call to scheduling for some personal convenience that's marginally ALpo "business" and leave some reserve grabbed for the trip, how much they actually make in "claims" via Alpo duties/etc)...methinks there'd be a revolution soon, and there should be.

We'll stay on opposite sides of the fence as regards the fix. I believe that a functional union, that's properly representative of it's membership, would consist of pilots that actually fly for starters, and who's pay is limited to that of the line pilots, and would have the sense to employ professional negotiators...and the list goes on. It's my sad observation that Alpo's focus..is ALPO...period. There's an incestuous upward progression among many Alpo players as to how fast they can get themselves "voted onto the Island"/MEC..and then upward into Nat'l...within which sphere they can immediately "retire" from both flying, and the worries of the line pilots. This structure makes for a breeding ground for self interested "politicians", that serves no purpose in advancing line pilots/members in any way.

 

[Phoenix]

Hmmm, kind of a dumb post, but I'll give it a shot.

Maintaining only one position with NO flexibility was a VERY bad place to be during merger negotiations. Nicolau thought so as did your MC who, by the way, asked your MEC to move away from it.

With no flexibility and an inability to negotiate, arbitration was the only option.

And here you are.

Seeing that you ignored the point and called it dumb, I am flattered.

I was also Alpo involved at a previous airline for a bit, and I couldn't find much good to say about the conferences/etc...other than they were a "vacation" from actual work.

There are people in Alpo that take their duties seriously, but far too few Imho. I also honestly feel that the Alpo structure's just too flawed to "work right" in general, and utterly fails to serve the needs of the line pilots that actually pay the Prater sorts his half million a year for harrumphing stress. It's hardly limited to Prater; If the average pilot was fully cognizant of the compensation given to Alpo people in general (how they can, and do simply drop a call to scheduling for some personal convenience that's marginally ALpo "business" and leave some reserve grabbed for the trip, how much they actually make in "claims" via Alpo duties/etc)...methinks there'd be a revolution soon, and there should be.

We'll stay on opposite sides of the fence as regards the fix. I believe that a functional union, that's properly representative of it's membership, would consist of pilots that actually fly for starters, and who's pay is limited to that of the line pilots, and would have the sense to employ professional negotiators...and the list goes on. It's my sad observation that Alpo's focus..is ALPO...period. There's an an incestuous upward progression among many Alpo players as to how fast they can get themselves "voted onto the Island"/MEC..and then upward into Nat'l...within which sphere they can immediately "retire" from both flying, and the worries of the line pilots. This structure makes for a breeding ground for self interested "politicians", that serves no purpose in advancing line pilots/members in any way.

Heck, that was a smart post. 😀

Ya know if all the reps, all the way up, had to stay in the same flea bag hotels as the line pilots that alone would be a great start. In fact, I think you memtioned it in a post somewhere else. That's why it is so cool.

 

[nostradamus]

Your post no 39 sounds a lot like awa320 talking, ghost writing almost.

 

[EastUS]

Ya know if all the reps, all the way up, had to stay in the same flea bag hotels as the line pilots that alone would be a great start.

That'd be a nice start. A major irritation I have with Alpo is that it's a "career" unto itself. How many people have you ever seen that truly love flying ever work so hard to get themselves elected into positions where flying's the last thing that they do? I'll also note that if the W2 forms from all elected Alpo types were made public to the actual line pilots....I wouldn't have to say much more for "Dump Alpo" to become a universal battle cry.

 

[Junebug172]

Your post no 39 sounds a lot like awa320 talking, ghost writing almost.

Well its not.

No go play on the UAL boards.

 

[nostradamus]

Well its not.

No go play on the UAL boards.

Thank you for proving my point. No offense but the history of your posts are short on substance and thought, high on ridicule of another persons post. I have included a link to your history of posts. Junebug posts


The last few posts you have made seem to be uncharacteristic of your history. I think you are posting someones opinion, but not yours. Are you a link to the cornfield?