Play by Play in courtroom AA wants to settle out of court WTF

[Overspeed]

I think the judge is expected to rule on the 1113 motion by June 6.

If I remember correctly he can extend the window 14 days before the ruling and "encourage" the parties to settle. Now the judge may or may not "telegraph" his decision in advance.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Thanks FWAAA. I assume, and that's all it is, that AA will want a decision by late June then, or at least a tentative - they might wait a little longer to allow for a ratification vote. But the TWU isn't the only union still in negotiations and AA probably won't allow themselves to get into a position of waiting a few weeks for one union, then waiting a few more weeks for another, then another few weeks for a third - all while the exclusivity period clock is ticking down. I wouldn't be surprised that if they don't have consensual agreements with all the remaining unionized groups by the end of June they'll go the abrogation route with any groups that don't have a consensual agreement being ratified. As things stand now, that just leaves about 3 months to get the POR pinned down and presented.

Jim

 

[FWAAA]

If I remember correctly he can extend the window 14 days before the ruling and "encourage" the parties to settle. Now the judge may or may not "telegraph" his decision in advance.

That might be - I'm certainly no expert at 1113. The law does say that the judge shall rule within 30 days of the start of the hearings unless the company and employees agree on a longer period.

Another source said the decision is expected by June 8, which is about six weeks after the hearings began.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I don't believe section 1113 actually says anything about extending the window or encouraging the parties to settle. It does say that if a ruling isn't made within the timetable specified (or as modified by agreement between the trustee [same as debtor] and union) the company can impose it's terms while awaiting the ruling.

But like I said, both the company and Judge would prefer a consensual agreement - but neither is going to wait long to achieve one.

Jim

 

[TWU informer]

Why doesn't the Union change directions as it pertains to M&R, in that a proposal to actually allow more RIF's or early outs, while implementing work rules that define boundries, regarding production, safety standards, and attendance policies, and then use those savings to raise the pay to match to the industry? A happy work force is a successful work force.

If you really want to save jobs, this in the long run is your best option.

In other words run the maintenance department like a business that wants to stay in business, instead of one being over run by a Union agenda that will cause the overhaul to be shuttered. Concessions for jobs needs to be reversed and a viable business plan that will not only save jobs, but create jobs in the long run.

Why does the TWU allow fear of the short term job cuts to trump common business sense?
We can do overhaul work and compete, if fact we can make profits doing the work, but the concessions for jobs approach is the WRONG direction.

A leaner more efficient work force, combined with changes in our management skills will allow the Tulsa base to thrive into third party work. Once the leaner more efficient work force is in place, demand a transition to operate the whole base as if it were FAR145 and AA is the customer. Then and only then can third party be done successfully.

In other words forget Union Dues for a few minutes and think long term and viable business plan that creates more jobs in the long run.

I know that is impossible for fear mongering TWU stooges to even imagine.

 

[Flying low]

Why doesn't the Union change directions as it pertains to M&R, in that a proposal to actually allow more RIF's or early outs, while implementing work rules that define boundries, regarding production, safety standards, and attendance policies, and then use those savings to raise the pay to match to the industry? A happy work force is a successful work force.

If you really want to save jobs, this in the long run is your best option.

In other words run the maintenance department like a business that wants to stay in business, instead of one being over run by a Union agenda that will cause the overhaul to be shuttered. Concessions for jobs needs to be reversed and a viable business plan that will not only save jobs, but create jobs in the long run.

Why does the TWU allow fear of the short term job cuts to trump common business sense?
We can do overhaul work and compete, if fact we can make profits doing the work, but the concessions for jobs approach is the WRONG direction.

A leaner more efficient work force, combined with changes in our management skills will allow the Tulsa base to thrive into third party work. Once the leaner more efficient work force is in place, demand a transition to operate the whole base as if it were FAR145 and AA is the customer. Then and only then can third party be done successfully.

In other words forget Union Dues for a few minutes and think long term and viable business plan that creates more jobs in the long run.

I know that is impossible for fear mongering TWU stooges to even imagine.

Remember that old saying:
"You can't teach an old dog new tricks"
Same thing applies here!!

 

[xmarlin]

Why doesn't the Union change directions as it pertains to M&R, in that a proposal to actually allow more RIF's or early outs, while implementing work rules that define boundries, regarding production, safety standards, and attendance policies, and then use those savings to raise the pay to match to the industry? A happy work force is a successful work force.

If you really want to save jobs, this in the long run is your best option.

In other words run the maintenance department like a business that wants to stay in business, instead of one being over run by a Union agenda that will cause the overhaul to be shuttered. Concessions for jobs needs to be reversed and a viable business plan that will not only save jobs, but create jobs in the long run.

Why does the TWU allow fear of the short term job cuts to trump common business sense?
We can do overhaul work and compete, if fact we can make profits doing the work, but the concessions for jobs approach is the WRONG direction.

A leaner more efficient work force, combined with changes in our management skills will allow the Tulsa base to thrive into third party work. Once the leaner more efficient work force is in place, demand a transition to operate the whole base as if it were FAR145 and AA is the customer. Then and only then can third party be done successfully.

In other words forget Union Dues for a few minutes and think long term and viable business plan that creates more jobs in the long run.

I know that is impossible for fear mongering TWU stooges to even imagine.

Actually...that's been proposed...problem I saw was the AMFA crowd screaming that the TWU was conceeding...

 

[TWU informer]

Actually...that's been proposed...problem I saw was the AMFA crowd screaming that the TWU was conceeding...

Got any proof of that? Is AMFA your Union?
How do you get away with blaming AMFA for anything at AA?

You might get your chance real soon to blame AMFA, but as of this moment TWU is the representation.
Are you saying TWU fears AMFA so bad they cannot represent us? Then we may as well go ahead and switch then.

 

[Mr Red]

More blame game,how about we take the Southwest contract lock stock and barrel.
Start weeding out the DEADBEATS,You know the pot stirers that never seem to fix anything.
That would be worth a couple dollar an hour raise for everyone right there !

 

[TWU informer]

On Wednesday, Association of Professional Flight Attendant president Laura Glading used the same analogy as she was explaining in U.S. Bankruptcy Court why the union had not asked members to vote on American's concessionary contract proposal, made after the airlline filed for bankruptcy protection on Nov. 29.

The reason was that the cuts were too deep for members to accept, she said: 2,300 flight attendants would be furloughed, and flight attendants would be hit with $230 million in cost cutting.

"it's so devastating, nobody would voluntarily do that. It's almost putting a gun in your hand and saying shoot yourself," she said. "Or saying if you're going to shoot me, you better do it because I'm not going to do it myself."

That point is important because the APFA and the unions have to show the judge they were being reasonable. Under Section 1113 of the bankruptcy code, American has to prove that "the authorized representative of the employees has refused to accept such proposal without good cause," among several requirements.

American is seeking to throw out the APFA contract, that of the Allied Pilots Association and two of the Transport Workers Union-represented work groups. Five TWU units have voted to accept American's last, best offer.

 

[Buck]

More blame game,how about we take the Southwest contract lock stock and barrel.
Start weeding out the DEADBEATS,You know the pot stirers that never seem to fix anything.
That would be worth a couple dollar an hour raise for everyone right there !

Southwest just settled with the TWU represented Dispatchers, the only parameter so far is the contract is 5 years which became amendable in 2009.

 

[Bob Owens]

Almost any company or bankruptcy Judge would prefer a consensual agreement to one imposed through 1113 proceedings (Lorenzo is the one exception I can think of off the top of my head). A consensual agreement leaves no questions dangling - can employees strike, do negotiations just keep going after abrogation, etc. Plus employees are generally better off with a consensual agreement, as distasteful as that agreement may be. If nothing else, they get a say in how the cuts are distributed among various contract items - lose less vacation in exchange for less paid sick time or whatever.

That's why there are few agreements that were abrogated despite all the legacy carriers except CO going through bankruptcy in the last decade.

Jim

And when Lorenzo abrogated the deal the pilots struck.

We are at the bottom of the barrell, no one else is.
We are dead last in hourly pay
We are dead last in sick time-5 days
We are dead last in Vacation, 1 week for the first five years and we lag the rest of the industry till we get to 30 years, and they want to take that away.
Dead last on OT-we never get 2x
We are dead last in Holidays-5
We are dead last as far as the rate paid if worked on the Holiday-we get half pay to work
with the companys proposals we would add the following;
Dead last as far as pension, the 401k match would only be on 2080 hours
Dead last as far as retiree medical-employee pays 100%
Dead last as far as Health benifits-we would pay more and have higher deductibles
Dead last as far as Job Security
Dead last as far work rules-we would be no better off than non-union

We would have the worst contract in the industry and why? Because $2.8 billion is enough of a profit to attract investment? We should agree to this so they can walk away with a 17% profit margin!!! Is that what C-11 was intended for?

Like I said if AA wants a deal from us then they have to be realistic. We have to keep our system protection,if they want to cut heads I'm ok with that as long as they do it though a buyout like UAL had and attrition, so we may have to flex on the scope and let them outsource. We have no problem making AA "competitive" as long as we arent expected to work for substandard compensation to do it. Just because they jumped into BK doesnt change the fact that we are already at the bottom and there is no way I'm going to agree to endorse $210 million in concessions. They need to drop their unrealistic demands and instead approach the areas of the contract where they believe they are at a disadvantage. As you can see from the list above there arent too many areas left where they dont enjoy an advantage over competitors.

 

[Bob Owens]

Southwest just settled with the TWU represented Dispatchers, the only parameter so far is the contract is 5 years which became amendable in 2009.

I heard they just raised the 401K match for mechanics to over 9% as well, on all earnings.

 

[Mr Red]

You got that right Bob, DEAD LAST !!! How anyone could vote YES baffles me.
Hopefully we can start clawing our way back up !

 

[strikeforce]

And when Lorenzo abrogated the deal the pilots struck.

We are at the bottom of the barrell, no one else is.
We are dead last in hourly pay
We are dead last in sick time-5 days
We are dead last in Vacation, 1 week for the first five years and we lag the rest of the industry till we get to 30 years, and they want to take that away.
Dead last on OT-we never get 2x
We are dead last in Holidays-5
We are dead last as far as the rate paid if worked on the Holiday-we get half pay to work
with the companys proposals we would add the following;
Dead last as far as pension, the 401k match would only be on 2080 hours
Dead last as far as retiree medical-employee pays 100%
Dead last as far as Health benifits-we would pay more and have higher deductibles
Dead last as far as Job Security
Dead last as far work rules-we would be no better off than non-union

We would have the worst contract in the industry and why? Because $2.8 billion is enough of a profit to attract investment? We should agree to this so they can walk away with a 17% profit margin!!! Is that what C-11 was intended for?

Like I said if AA wants a deal from us then they have to be realistic. We have to keep our system protection,if they want to cut heads I'm ok with that as long as they do it though a buyout like UAL had and attrition, so we may have to flex on the scope and let them outsource. We have no problem making AA "competitive" as long as we arent expected to work for substandard compensation to do it. Just because they jumped into BK doesnt change the fact that we are already at the bottom and there is no way I'm going to agree to endorse $210 million in concessions. They need to drop their unrealistic demands and instead approach the areas of the contract where they believe they are at a disadvantage. As you can see from the list above there arent too many areas left where they dont enjoy an advantage over competitors.

Bob, with all do respect, you happen to be in the same room with the losers that placed us at the bottom of the industry. If there's going to be a revolt it has to happen at negotiations. The problem starts with Little, Gless, Videtich, and others that place jobs over wage and benefit protections. Then, you have Hewitt...just a plain loser and company spokesman for AA. You can preach to the choir all you want, WE believe what you say, but it's the idiots at the INTL that you have convince to stop bringing back POS T/A's for vote. That's why NOTHING will change as long as the TWU is the representative union for the mechanics. 56% voted against the LBO, if those same people would sign an AMFA or AMP card, we would be holding an election to oust this POS union called the TWU. Let's put all of our efforts to get rid of the cancer that placed US at the bottom, and continuously sides with AA.