Potential DL narrowbody order

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Bloomberg link
Delta Air Lines Inc. plans to order 100 to 200 narrow-body jets and seek options for 200 more, a deal that may become the biggest in commercial aviation history, as it replaces some of its oldest planes.

A new jet order will replace planes including Boeing DC-9s that average 34 years old, Boeing 757-200s that are 18 years old and A320s that are 16 years old, Nat Pieper, vice president of fleet strategy and transactions, said on Delta’s website posting.
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Why even bother to consider ordering an Airbus when a comparable Boeing seems to last longer? I know the ages are average and the DC-9s aren't really Boeing, but it seems to me that the A320s are being replaced kind of soon (16 years average age)?

 

[WorldTraveler]

It was a given that DL would eventually have to start ordering airplanes. The primary reason they held out was because they needed to demonstrate benefits of the DL/NW merger and part of that requires reducing the debt levels. In addition, DL is going to invest significantly in the JFK facilities and that requires a stronger balance sheet in order to obtain decent financial terms.

It is doubtful that any airplane will last as long as the DC9; it's not even clear that the MD80s will last as long - but given that they aren't competitive in fuel burn, it probably won't matter. If the MD90s can last and there are no substantial improvements in engine technology, the MD90s could be kept around for a long time.

DL is clearly interested in pushing Boeing to develop an improved 737 but don't doubt that DL will order Airbus aircraft if that is the best product available. If the new 320 delivers what is being promised, it should be worth the investment.
Bombardier and Embraer are both very much going to put forth proposals and fight for DL's business at least in the segments they can build. And given the potential size of the order, it is very possible that DL could order from several manufacturers and still have large enough fleets of each type to make economic sense.

I'm not sure why 320s are being retired as soon as they are but it could well be related to the terms that NW obtained to buy the aircraft in the first place - which makes it possible to retire them earlier than otherwise. If Airbus aircraft really don't last as long Boeings, then that should be no surprise to DL and would be reflected in the price. Airbus and Boeing very much want to sell airplanes to DL and are going to aggressively fight for DL's business. Given that DL's comments about what aircraft types they are interested in is fairly generic, I expect DL is looking for what kind of proposals Airbus and Boeing are willing to offer.

 

[700UW]

Because the Airbus A320 family have time limited airframes and are throw away planes, when US bought them, we were informed of that. An airbus doesnt have the cycle life that a Boeing does. Boeings can keep going forever, while an Airbus cant.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Because the Airbus A320 family have time limited airframes and are throw away planes, when US bought them, we were informed of that. An airbus doesnt have the cycle life that a Boeing does. Boeings can keep going forever, while an Airbus cant.

That's not the first time I have heard that but it should be reflected in the sales price. Given that the 320 and 737 sell at similar rates, I would expect the price to reflect that reality.

 

[RDU Jetblast]

Bloomberg link
Delta Air Lines Inc. plans to order 100 to 200 narrow-body jets and seek options for 200 more, a deal that may become the biggest in commercial aviation history, as it replaces some of its oldest planes.

A new jet order will replace planes including Boeing DC-9s that average 34 years old, Boeing 757-200s that are 18 years old and A320s that are 16 years old, Nat Pieper, vice president of fleet strategy and transactions, said on Delta’s website posting.
___________________________________

Why even bother to consider ordering an Airbus when a comparable Boeing seems to last longer? I know the ages are average and the DC-9s aren't really Boeing, but it seems to me that the A320s are being replaced kind of soon (16 years average age)?

They will buy from both mfr's for two reasons:1) political, Delta flies in Europe. 2) Lead time. Buy all Boeings, it will be slow.

 

[700UW]

No one really knows what a carrier pays for a plane, Boeing and Airbus both give steep discounts off the list price and the true price paid is confidential.

 

[Singleflyer]

Don't forget the other two manufactures that are making planes in the 90 - 110 seat range.

 

[700UW]

But a 737 and A320 Family hold more than that.

 

[robbedagain]

I had heard in the past from some DL folks at my station that DL may order the A-350 jet and my guess is is to dump the A-330 but as for narrow bodys does DL fly the 737-900 or 800 and wouldnt that be the type theyre looking at or would it be easy to replace the DC-9 with the 737-900 or 800

 

[Kev3188]

DL flies the -700 & -800...

 

[robbedagain]

thanks Kev

 

[strfyr51]

​

It was a given that DL would eventually have to start ordering airplanes. The primary reason they held out was because they needed to demonstrate benefits of the DL/NW merger and part of that requires reducing the debt levels. In addition, DL is going to invest significantly in the JFK facilities and that requires a stronger balance sheet in order to obtain decent financial terms.

It is doubtful that any airplane will last as long as the DC9; it's not even clear that the MD80s will last as long - but given that they aren't competitive in fuel burn, it probably won't matter. If the MD90s can last and there are no substantial improvements in engine technology, the MD90s could be kept around for a long time.

DL is clearly interested in pushing Boeing to develop an improved 737 but don't doubt that DL will order Airbus aircraft if that is the best product available. If the new 320 delivers what is being promised, it should be worth the investment.
Bombardier and Embraer are both very much going to put forth proposals and fight for DL's business at least in the segments they can build. And given the potential size of the order, it is very possible that DL could order from several manufacturers and still have large enough fleets of each type to make economic sense.

I'm not sure why 320s are being retired as soon as they are but it could well be related to the terms that NW obtained to buy the aircraft in the first place - which makes it possible to retire them earlier than otherwise. If Airbus aircraft really don't last as long Boeings, then that should be no surprise to DL and would be reflected in the price. Airbus and Boeing very much want to sell airplanes to DL and are going to aggressively fight for DL's business. Given that DL's comments about what aircraft types they are interested in is fairly generic, I expect DL is looking for what kind of proposals Airbus and Boeing are willing to offer.

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It's not that Airbus airplanes are inferior or Boeing's are superior airframes. ANY airplane can be mantained for as LONG as you put in the money to maintain it. WhAT I do FIND is Boeing's engineering is FAR superior to Airbus where if you have a problem Boeing will give a more definitive answer and the reasoning behind it or barring that an NTO (Non techical objection) to whatever YOUR solution might be in a timely manner where Airbus' reply looks just like their Maintenence manuals...
Written by LAWYERS!! PLUS THE AIRBUS system architecture would make an Airbus near impossible to modify an older airplane with updated equipment that isn't an Airbus OEM installed unit.. That's why boeings can be modified into freighters so easily after they've finished their Passenger service. After having worked with airbus for the past 3 years as a controller I oersonally don't believe an A320 could be modified into a freighter because I doesn't appear to ME to be be Built robust enough to take the strain and the load with Cargo pit and passenger floors panels engineered as part of the Primary structure.
That appears to be kind of "Tinker Toy" engineering to me..

 

[WorldTraveler]

If DL orders an aircraft with less than 150 seats, it will likely NOT be from Airbus or Boeing. The 737 and 320 are too heavy in 130 seat versions because they carry most of the weight of their 150/160 seat cousins (because the wings and landing gear down shrink) but with 85-90% of the revenue generating capacity.
The primary obstacle to 120-130 seat and smaller aircraft at the network carriers is pilot labor costs - but the NW pilots very intentionally created pilot wage scales that made operating the 100 seat DC9 profitable - if only at lower fuel costs. If that same mindset to making 100 seat aircraft works, you could see DL choose to fly smaller mainline jets - which would likely be built by Brazilians or Canadians.