Hackman
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Sure I did, the voters have spoken...no gay marriage....fact. Gays are not a minority....fact. Don't get it? I know, most liberals don't.
Prop 8 over turned in CA
- Thread starter Ms Tree
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Ms Tree
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They are US citizens being deprived of equal treatment under the law. Prop 8 will eventually be over turned as it clearly violates the COTUS. Why would civil unions need to be recognized nation wide when in your own words gays are not being deprived of anything? For the state, a marriage is nothing more than a legal contract. There is nothing in US law that will support the idea that certain people of consenting age may not enter into the contract of marriage. Eventually it will hit the SCOTUS and all the marriage bans will be null and void. You cannot vote on civil rights. That is something the bigots cannot wrap their head around.
You should read the news more. The survey was covered by everyone when it was published. I think FOX even ran a story or two on it.
Defense/Pentagon survey
It will not be reinstated. The Senate voted to repeal the law. A new bill would need to be introduced and you won't find a senator willing to present the bill much less vote for it. The Senate bill passed 65-31. Several republicans voted for the bill. It's history.
The military had nothing to do with Gitmo or the trials. That was politics. Do you actually think the military is going to refuse an order by the WH or Congress? They be asked what their opinion is but they do not get a vote. Obama said to go into Pakistan and kill OBL, the SEALS said Yes Sir. There was no vote on the issue. If The POTUS orders the withdrawal of troops, they come home. There is no debate. The fact that Obama changed his mind because of political influences is no surprise but to imply that the military told him no is laughable.
You should read the news more. The survey was covered by everyone when it was published. I think FOX even ran a story or two on it.
Defense/Pentagon survey
It will not be reinstated. The Senate voted to repeal the law. A new bill would need to be introduced and you won't find a senator willing to present the bill much less vote for it. The Senate bill passed 65-31. Several republicans voted for the bill. It's history.
The military had nothing to do with Gitmo or the trials. That was politics. Do you actually think the military is going to refuse an order by the WH or Congress? They be asked what their opinion is but they do not get a vote. Obama said to go into Pakistan and kill OBL, the SEALS said Yes Sir. There was no vote on the issue. If The POTUS orders the withdrawal of troops, they come home. There is no debate. The fact that Obama changed his mind because of political influences is no surprise but to imply that the military told him no is laughable.
Even beyond all that......polling shows Americans distrust Athiests more than Gays.... :unsure:
Hackman
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Which specific article are are you referring to? One states only a 25% of those polled responded, so I guess those serving liked DADT the way it was. As I said when the repeal of DADT causes problems, it will be reinstated after Nobama gets voted out of office.
I surmise the reason that civil unions are not recognized nation wide is because it has been rejected by the gay community as not good enough, no surprise. Your premise that gay marriage will be heard by the Supreme Court is wishful thinking, it won't get there, because majority of states have rejected it. I like how you label me a "bigot" because I reject same sex marriage, how typical of a tree hugging liberal. Disagree with a liberal and your a racist, a bigot, a "ignorant slob". Hilarious stuff I must say... YOU have to wrap your narrow mind around that a majority of US voters reject gay marriage, but have no problem with civil unions.
The military has no say with GITMO or having terrorist trials in NY? So the Military Judge Advocate Generals who advise the U.S. House of Representatives Armed Services Committee, have zero input and there is "no debate"? It's all politics. Uh, okay. Just like Nobama told the SEALS to go get bin Laden and the military generals just blindly followed the presidents' lead when he has no clue what he is doing. Libtard Dreamland....you must wake up.
SparrowHawk
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Stand by for a common sense constitutionally based opinion on Gays in the Military & Gay marriage
Any Association that's voluntary should be permissible in a free society
Any Association that's voluntary should be permissible in a free society
leprechaun
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Why do you care. What a bunch of homophobes. There's gays in the military, so what.
All of you religious fanatics trying to force your so called "morality" down everyones throats. Your as bad as our towel headed friends.
All of you religious fanatics trying to force your so called "morality" down everyones throats. Your as bad as our towel headed friends.
Praise Jesus........is it true at the end of a rainbow there's a pot of gold and a gay Irish midget?
Hackman
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Lucky Charms, people care because the deviant openly gay lifestyle undermines the military mission for a number of reasons, this is why DADT was enacted by Billybob Clinton.
The gay rights movement and gay marriage has forced down everyone's throat, and sexual preference is a private matter. "Towel headed friends"? Your not a racist are you? For shame...
leprechaun
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Ms Tree
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More than likely that is not what happened. I took a class in college about survey s and polls. The people who respond are the ones who have some sort of vested interest or are passionate about the issue. So in the case of the survey on gays in the military the people who would respond are people such as you and my self who are passionate about the issue and gays since they have a vested interest. The people who do not care one way or the other are usually not going to make the effort to respond. So numerically, the number of people who do not care and the people who think it's a good idea out number those who are against it.
Again, you do not seem to understand how the lifting of DADT works. It was not rescinded by and EO. This was a bill passed by Congress by a margin of 65-31. Congress is not going to reverse it because they want nothing to do with it. I seriously doubt any president is going to touch it with a ten foot poll for the same reasons. There was a survey done a while back about integration of the military. You can guess the results. The military was and still is integrated. Women are integrated into the military as well.
Gays have been in the military since there was a military. I am not sure what you think is going to change. The same people who have been serving will continue to enlist and serve. You are not going to see gay orgies any more than you see now. Policies will not change. They will no longer have to violate their oath by lying about who they are and when gays are allowed to marry their spouse will be entitled to survivor benefits.
The lifting of DADT will cause no more problems than desegregation/integration or the integration of women. Personal will be told it will happen and if you violate any policies your out. If you don't like it, resign, retire or deal. The military will do what it is told to do by it's civilian leadership.
They are full US citizen of the US. I would not accept anything other than full equality either. Plessy v Ferguson was overturned with Brown v Board because separate is not equal. Never mind the fact that civil union is not the same as marriage. I looked into it when I got married which is why we chose the route of marriage and not civil union.
The states have no say in why case will or will not be heard before the SCOTUS. It is purely a legal issue. Prop 8 was contested before a Federal Appeals judge. He ruled that Prop 8 violated the COTUS. That decision is being appealed to the 9th Circuit Appeals court. I believe they are also reviewing the standing of the group that is appealing the Federal judges decision. Since the State of CA did not defend the proposition in court the group who sponsored the proposition decided to appeal it. There is concern over whether or not they have the right (standing) to do so. Te last thing I have heard is that the 9th circuit has kicked the question over to the CA supreme court to rule on the standing issue.
Prop 8 appeal ruling
Basically, if the court rules that Yes on 8 has no standing, the prop is dead and gays can marry in CA. If Yes on 8 does have standing the 9th circuit will have to rule on the constitutionality of prop 8. When that happens it will be appealed to the SCOTUS because either Yes on 8 or the plaintiffs will be pissed off and not accept the decision. At that point the SCOTUS will have to decide if they want to hear the case or not. I doubt they will say no on the case as it affects too many people.
Bottom line is the states have no say in how this play out or any case for that matter. The SCOTUS and any cases it hears are based on the appeals process and nothing else. What the states believe is not worth a warm bucket of spit. If they decided to defend a case to the SCOTUS that is one thing. But because they reject it is irrelevant. As in this case, since CA is not defending the proposition, someone else decided to do so. Had Yes on 8 not defended the prop, the fed court ruling would have stood and the prop would have been DOA.
Civil unions are not recognized nationally or by the fed for the same reason that marriage is not. It must be voted on by the states to pass. Very few states have passed such measures. This has nothing to do with gays accepting or not.
You need to read my post again. No the military has no say (authority) with GITMO or any thing else. They may and do give advice or opinions but they do not have any say in what happens. Debate in terms of arguments yes, debate in terms of "I'm not going to do it and you can't make me" no. This is like a parent and their child. The child ca present their case to the parent but if the parent rejects the plea, it's done. The kids follows the parent ruling or they get punished. he military can tell the POTUS that they do not have the ability to do what is being asked but they cannot and will not say the won't do it. As long as the order does not violate the law you are dam straight the military will carry out that order.
The military has been told that DADT is repealed. They will carry out the repeal of that law without question.
Your difference of opinion is not what makes you a bigot in my opinion. It is your use of derogatory words such as deviant, homo and your willingness to deprive US citizens of equal rights that makes you a bigot. Sparrow and I do not see eye to eye on nearly anything and I do not consider him a bigot at all.
Ms Tree
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Gays have been in the military and it has no effect on anything. Policy will not change.
Actually it is not a 'private matter' as you put it. It is a legal matter. It pertains to surviorship, insurance, parental rights, visitation, benefits and a host of other legal issues. Gays want the same legal befits and everyone else and it is appalling that they need to fight to be treated as equals in a country that claims to treat everyone equally. I guess some people are not quite as equal as others.
Now they know what it was like at the back of the bus.
