Prop 8 over turned in CA

[Hackman]

Does that men that Heteros are not going to be married by chaplains and that Heteros will go back in the closet where they belong as well?

The 14th amendment will win out at some point. We are a land of laws and the law will win out.

A marriage is between a man and a women, as it has always been and will continue to be. No closet needed. That's the law and what the bible states. I know your militant gay mind won't accept that, but that's the way this country's majority wants it. Accept what you cannot change, life goes on.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Here is where DOMA gets dicey and Obama is shown as the spineless twit he is.

Obama Justice Department Defends Defense Of Marriage Act – That Candidate Obama Opposed

Stop Defending DOMA

Now before you say, "All politicians flip flop" consider this. When Eric Holder (who I've met) took the oath of office he gave a solemn promise to uphold the laws of the land, not just the ones he thinks are good. So in the strictest term, Mr Holder has not upheld his oath of office. This fact troubles me far more than DOMA. We either are a country of laws and not of men or we aren't.

If you're the AG you're not supposed to pick and choose which laws you enforce or defend. This further proves we have to many laws. Right now for example we have enough gun laws in place that if fully enforced would have an impact on gun violence and guns getting into the wrong hands. As to gays I say Let'em marry and be miserable just like everyone else

 

[Ms Tree]

I always get a chuckle when people classify gays who want equal treatment under the law as militant. As if women in the 20's and blacks in the 60's were militant. If fighting for equal rights is militant, then I'm all for it.

Look at the voting statistics. Each time a measure comes up that would confirm equal rights to gays, it comes closer to the one before it to passing.

I wonder if a hetero spouse ever wigged out over their spouse being sent out. Nah, that would never happen right?

Ah yes, the gay disease. Nuf said.

Oh my gosh, there is ignorance in California? Go figure.

Yes you are dying off. According to the survey taken of military personal you are in the minority, not majority. Look at the vote count on Prop 22 and then look at the vote count on prop 8. A 4% change in votes is all that's needed. Odds are now that another election will not be needed. The courts are going to step in and in all likely hood strike down Prop 8. Even Scalia has said there is no constitutional support for depriving gays equal rights. DOMA is is no longer being defended. DADT is history later this year.

Nope, never been in the armed forces. I'm not black, not female, not gay. Funny how the arguments used to prevent equality for gays are the same tired worn out ones used to prevent women and blacks from being treated equally.

Gay swill get equal treatment. Whether you like it or not it will happen. Women got it, blacks got it. Gays will get it. Learn to deal with it.

 

[Ms Tree]

Gays have equal treatment.....Civil Unions. All the benefits of a marriage....just without the "marriage" title. Because it's not a marriage. The majority of voters don't want it. People that hold public office (judges, senators, reps) have to listen to the majority of the voting voice...or be voted out of office. That's not a "good 'ol boy network", that's the republic in which we live.

Wow. You really need to read up on the issue if you are going to try and argue it.

Aside from the fact that civil unions are not equal to marriages (hence the different terms), civil unions are only allowed in 7 states. They are not recognized by the rest of the nation, they are not recognized by the federal government. Aside from those small issues there are very much the same.

You do realize the reason that we have a republic and not a democracy is because in short, the founders did not trust the public to make the right decision. We have an electoral college for that reason.

Civil rights is not an issue that should be voted on. The COTUS spells it out very clearly in the 14th amendment.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Here is all you need to know on the subject.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed​

It is very important to note that in this quote no mention is made of Allah, Christ, Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Confucius or any other deity except to say "Creator". Neither does it mention Gay, Straight, queer, homo or spic, wop, mick, kike, etc etc. What is does say is "All Men" meaning man as human beings, not gender.

Adj. 1. unalienable - incapable of being repudiated or transferred to another;

The right to chose ones life partner would come under "Pursuit of Happiness". Some Libertarians will argue that same sex marriage should be left up to the states. Not sure how that squares with the above.

 

[Ms Tree]

It does not square. It's a round peg in a square hole. The DoI and COTUS say that everyone should be treated the same. I do not understand why some people seem to have a problem with that. Any state depriving people of equal rights would be in violation of the COTUS.

 

[SparrowHawk]

It does not square. It's a round peg in a square hole. The DoI and COTUS say that everyone should be treated the same. I do not understand why some people seem to have a problem with that. Any state depriving people of equal rights would be in violation of the COTUS.

I could argue it both ways actually. I have a simple filter I use and that is:

Which side of the issue ensures more Freedom & Liberty for the individual and less for Government? Using that filter formally conferring rights to gays would be an issue for the feds. Ron Paul wants to punt it to the states but he hasn't elaborated as to why.

 

[Ms Tree]

Lets change the names of the players. Should states have the right to determine what rights blacks or women can have? That has already been settled but for some reason the Fed and states choose to ignore the law when it comes to gays.

 

[Hackman]

I always get a chuckle when people classify gays who want equal treatment under the law as militant. As if women in the 20's and blacks in the 60's were militant. If fighting for equal rights is militant, then I'm all for it.

Look at the voting statistics. Each time a measure comes up that would confirm equal rights to gays, it comes closer to the one before it to passing.

I wonder if a hetero spouse ever wigged out over their spouse being sent out. Nah, that would never happen right?

Ah yes, the gay disease. Nuf said.

Oh my gosh, there is ignorance in California? Go figure.

Yes you are dying off. According to the survey taken of military personal you are in the minority, not majority. Look at the vote count on Prop 22 and then look at the vote count on prop 8. A 4% change in votes is all that's needed. Odds are now that another election will not be needed. The courts are going to step in and in all likely hood strike down Prop 8. Even Scalia has said there is no constitutional support for depriving gays equal rights. DOMA is is no longer being defended. DADT is history later this year.

Nope, never been in the armed forces. I'm not black, not female, not gay. Funny how the arguments used to prevent equality for gays are the same tired worn out ones used to prevent women and blacks from being treated equally.

Gay swill get equal treatment. Whether you like it or not it will happen. Women got it, blacks got it. Gays will get it. Learn to deal with it.

Try as you might, gays are not in the same class as blacks or women. Race or gender are minority groups, being a homosexual is not. Just like being a bi-sexual is not a minority group. Being obese or bald is not a minority group. You call the voters in California "ignorant", why? Because you and your kind didn't get your way? Too bad.

As I said gays have equal treatment....civil unions. But that's not good enough. Being that you never served, your opinion on gays in the military has no merit, because you didn't serve. The decision should be left up to those hero's currently serving in the armed services and the vets that did serve, and all the ones I know or have talked to want DADT to stay in place. Same with no gay marriage. Most of the voting public agrees' with this premise. The homo's keeping crying foul, and their hole keeps getting deeper.

 

[Ms Tree]

Try as you might, gays are not in the same class as blacks or women. Race or gender are minority groups, being a homosexual is not. Just like being a bi-sexual is not a minority group. Being obese or bald is not a minority group. You call the voters in California "ignorant", why? Because you and your kind didn't get your way? Too bad.

Numerical minority - Check
Deprived of equal rights - Check

Seems like a minority to me.

As I said gays have equal treatment....civil unions. But that's not good enough. Being that you never served, your opinion on gays in the military has no merit, because you didn't serve. The decision should be left up to those hero's currently serving in the armed services and the vets that did serve, and all the ones I know or have talked to want DADT to stay in place. Same with no gay marriage. Most of the voting public agrees' with this premise. The homo's keeping crying foul, and their hole keeps getting deeper.

What part of this are you not able to grasp? Civil unions are not marriage therefore they are not equal (Brown v Board). Never mind the fact that civil unions are only allowed in 7 states and not recognized by the Fed.

Had the right to serve been left up tot he 'heros' we very well ay still have a segregated military assuming blacks were allowed in. So no experience means I have no say? There are not going to be a lot of conversations about much of anything. So since you are not a woman your opinion on abortion has no merit? The military works for the people and the military does what it is told to do by the civilian government that commands it. It will do what it is told to do when it is told to do it and they will have no say in it.

The defense survey taken earlier says you are wrong about how the people in the service feel about gays. DADT is history. Deal with it. Gays will eventually be allowed to marry. Deal with it. I'm still waiting for the mass exodus we were told would happen when DADT was repealed.

For your argument to have any credibility you might want to cease using the derogatory terms. It shows you to be a bigot and discounts your already weak argument.

 

[xUT]

Try as you might, gays are not in the same class as blacks or women. Race or gender are minority groups, being a homosexual is not. Just like being a bi-sexual is not a minority group. Being obese or bald is not a minority group. You call the voters in California "ignorant", why? Because you and your kind didn't get your way? Too bad.

As I said gays have equal treatment....civil unions. But that's not good enough. Being that you never served, your opinion on gays in the military has no merit, because you didn't serve. The decision should be left up to those hero's currently serving in the armed services and the vets that did serve, and all the ones I know or have talked to want DADT to stay in place. Same with no gay marriage. Most of the voting public agrees' with this premise. The homo's keeping crying foul, and their hole keeps getting deeper.

you will never convince ms tree of these facts.
sexual preference, sexual orientation, or sexual deviancy.
putting a gerbil up your butt seems a little cruel don't ja think?
😛

 

[dapoes]

And why is that?

I assume you're not directing that at me?

No not you, Tree, Garfield whatever he is.

 

[Ms Tree]

you will never convince ms tree of these facts.
sexual preference, sexual orientation, or sexual deviancy.
putting a gerbil up your butt seems a little cruel don't ja think?
😛

He presented no facts. How does animal cruelty have anything to do with the issue? As Hackman said, since you are not gay you have no idea what you are talking about an your opinion has no merit.

 

[Ms Tree]

OK since you're a little slow today, I'll spell it out for you.

It's called HEROIN, Got that? HEROIN!! To the tune of $125,000 over 2 years, three Cold Turkey kicks, Forgery charges and a stolen Ford Explorer. Never mind the fact that I have 5 death threats, a relocation and a partridge in a pear tree. I like to keep things private but since you're thick as a brick I spelled it out for you! And YES you struck a nerve.

Now run along with your HomoPromo Agenda

I posted the term 'partner addition' on my car forum and no one there has heard it either so I know I am not alone in being "thick".

 

[Hackman]

Numerical minority - Check
Deprived of equal rights - Check

Seems like a minority to me.



What part of this are you not able to grasp? Civil unions are not marriage therefore they are not equal (Brown v Board). Never mind the fact that civil unions are only allowed in 7 states and not recognized by the Fed.

Had the right to serve been left up tot he 'heros' we very well ay still have a segregated military assuming blacks were allowed in. So no experience means I have no say? There are not going to be a lot of conversations about much of anything. So since you are not a woman your opinion on abortion has no merit? The military works for the people and the military does what it is told to do by the civilian government that commands it. It will do what it is told to do when it is told to do it and they will have no say in it.

The defense survey taken earlier says you are wrong about how the people in the service feel about gays. DADT is history. Deal with it. Gays will eventually be allowed to marry. Deal with it. I'm still waiting for the mass exodus we were told would happen when DADT was repealed.

For your argument to have any credibility you might want to cease using the derogatory terms. It shows you to be a bigot and discounts your already weak argument.

Numerical minority- does not equal a minority group....period. If that is the case, everyone is in a minority group for something.

Deprived of equal rights- that's the liberal opinion. Not the case.

I don't grasp the liberal blather, and never will. I guess you and your liberal friends need to get civil unions recognized nation wide, because the gay marriage movement has failed in total. Most voters like myself don't see that changing anytime in the future. We shall see. However the liberal motive of violence, screaming, carrying offensive signs, and marching in the street won't get the job done. Didn't work in Cali.

You can have an opinion on a myriad of subjects, but what counts is if you lived it. My opinion on abortion counts because it takes a man and women to conceive a child (no test tubes don't count) and I think it is wrong in most cases, but it's not my place to tell others how to run their life. The military is mostly controlled by executive branch, but the military brass does have a large say in what happens. They don't just blindly do what civilians demand. Witness how Nobama wanted to close Gitmo, try terrorists in NY, and pull out of the Sandbox, he said it over and over. Since he doesn't know what he is doing, the military has not let that happen. Don't know what survey of the military you reference, (MSNBC no doubt) but the opinions of most of the military brass I have read are not for openly gay military service, same goes for the troops. DADT might be repealed under Nobama, but after it causes problems that it surely will, and Nobama is out of office after one term, it will be reinstated.

Finally, you might want to look in your own back yard about using derogatory terms before you speak about any of mine. It makes you look like hypocrite and a libtard fool.

Have a great evening and god bless.